Dalinar's Climax (Oathbringer)

[Rushu42 she/her]

I was intruiged by the end (or near end) of Oathbringer, when Dalinar somehow unites the three realms, creating a temporary perpedicularity. There are some really good details there that could lead to further speculation on the nature of the Realms and of the Shards, so if you have the books handy I reccomend rereading the passage (Chapter 119). However, the part that stood out to me the most was on page 1139 in the kindle edition: "'No!' Odium screamed. He stepped forward. 'No, we killed you. WE KILLED YOU!'" 

Since the perpendicularity created was referred to as "Honor's Perpendicularity", I had originally assumed that this was Dalinar taking on the power of Honor, similar to what Vin does in Mistborn. However, Odium's use of the word "we" leads me to believe that this might not be the case. Since Odium's quest is to Splinter all the other Shards, I find it unlikely that he would have worked with someone else to Splinter Honor. Could he perhaps be referring to the original Shattering?

Obviously this is just a theory, but the way Dalinar combined the three realms, along with Odium's fearful reaction (which wouldn't have been so extreme if he was facing an equal) leads me to believe that Dalinar might have somehow briefly touched upon the power of Adonalasium. Dalinar calling himself "Unity" is another hint, since Adonalasium was all of the Shards united. 

Since I'm planning to do more research on this, the theory isn't complete, so additions or rebuttals are more than welcome.

[Void89 he/him]

Like your theory but I think we don't have much to consult right now - perhaps dalinar has the potential to become a God (some resource sleeping within him we don't yet know about) Because even the original God must have grown to power at some point (and the humans who defeated him and took his power for that matter)

 

But that's just crazy speculation right now since we don't know enough yet

[Rushu42 she/her]

Thank you! Do you think that Dalinar is unique in this potential, or is it universal in humans and only Dalinar is making use of it?

[Void89 he/him]

Well considering that 16 people killed something with the power of all the shards combined there must be some power or way to do it (I always wondered about that) I mean how can they defeat basically a 16times more powerful odium?

Considering what all the radiants went through on roshar dealing with a fraction of that power.

Also there are hints that much more is possible than we know radiants could do, dalinars supernova explosion unity thing was just the most obvious one, but kal for example also (on a smaller scale) did stop the highstorm with superpower and windspren that even astonished syl, which he then downplayed by 'yeah couldn't save everyone' and everybody forgot about that quickly

Edited January 24, 2019 by Void89

[ND103]

Given he also united the spiritual realm, I take that quote with a lot of caution. The spiritual realm is a place where time is sort of irrelevant. So for all we know, Odium isn't seeing anything that's going on at that point in time, but something that is supposed to happen at a later time. Or some other weird timey wimey effects are taking place. Basically my personal thoughts are, all Odium saw there was something that could happen someday but might not. 

That said, Mr. S has consistently rafoed questions about that unity line. So I'm inclined to believe he has some plans for it. This could very well be his plan, though I for one would personally not be that impressed by it. 

Or maybe I would be, there is just so much we don't know. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by ND103
Typos!

[Rushu42 she/her]

That makes sense. It's possible that Kaladin's storm incident was just part of his being a Windrunner, but you're right that it could be something more. So far, though, I think we've only seen this in people with Investiture. Maybe something about the connection with the Shards makes this possible? 

Also, I think that, since Odium seemed to be interacting with Dalinar in the Physical/Cognitive Realm and reacting to what he saw, it's reasonably safe to assume that he was seing the present. Especially since I think that otherwise it would be little to confusing to be included by Sanderson.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Rushu42

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think we have WoB (but can't find it right now) that Autonomy had some involvement with the deaths of Aona and Skai so it's not inconceivable that she/they might have been involved in the death of Honor as well.

[Rushu42 she/her]

1 minute ago, CrazyRioter said:

I think we have WoB (but can't find it right now) that Autonomy had some involvement with the deaths of Aona and Skai so it's not inconceivable that she/they might have been involved in the death of Honor as well.

Perhaps, although the Coppermind says that Autonomy thinks that Shards are better on their own. How many times would she be willing to work with another?

[RShara she/her]

42 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

I think we have WoB (but can't find it right now) that Autonomy had some involvement with the deaths of Aona and Skai so it's not inconceivable that she/they might have been involved in the death of Honor as well.

It's a very tenuous WoB, paraphrased and using "in any way" which can mean anything from direct assistance to "Hey, did you know D&D are on Sel together?"

Quote

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh...

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

(sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

Lisbon signing (Nov. 7, 2016)

 

[Rushu42 she/her]

3 minutes ago, RShara said:

It's a very tenuous WoB, paraphrased and using "in any way" which can mean anything from direct assistance to "Hey, did you know D&D are on Sel together?"

 

I think that the most evidence we have is in the letter to Frost which mentions that he has a grudge against both Odium and Bavadin.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Rushu42
Typo

[WestTea he/him]

Another option that I didn't see mentioned is the we could refer to Odium and Cultivation. By the time Honor was splintered and Tanavast died he seemed to be acting strangely. The stormfather mentions that near his end he started only caring about the words of an oath and not the meaning behind the oath. I think it's possible that Cultivation saw/predicted she and Honor were going to be destroyed struck a deal with Odium that lead to his imprisonment and Honors death, but that seems unlikely because I thought Honor and Cultivation got along about as well as 2 shards can.

Also, I don't think Odium ever acted alone against Honor. He has an army that gets reborn every desolation and multiple very powerful spren on his side. I don't know how Honor was ultimately destroyed but I wouldn't be surprised (but I would be a little disappointed) if a contest of champions had occurred or someone played turncoat and helped Odium by weakening Honor. Either way I don't think we know enough to come to any conclusion on who Odium saw in Dalinar or who the "we" he referred to was.