Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Jace21 said: Souls I'll give you. Cognitive shadows he is usually ok on except when asked to explain what one is, which requires ambiguous terms like soul. While I dont see it as purely his fault as it is vague in real life, it is definitely confusing in the WoBs. I have no issue him using multiple terms on the book myself. Syl and Nightblood I buy. The Fused are the odd one out, which realmatically, thay are. He does love playing with people and the terms they use though, I see how it could be a bit much. The problem with cognitive shadows is that in literally every instance the concept comes up, it is seemingly describing a completely different and arguably only tangentially related concept. Like in Secret History, the first time it comes up, it basically refers to a ghost, or a person's mind immediately following their death that exists entirely in Shadesmar and has no physical connection. And cool, that's a perfectly clear description of the concept. Then Stormlight comes along and claims that Tanavast's cognitive shadow, which apparently does NOT include his mind, has become one with the Stormfather, and then later that the Fused are cognitive shadows and Spren that Odium essentially glues to Singer bodies. So that's two different usages right there. And then after that it says that the Heralds, who are seemingly 100% flesh and blood human beings, are also cognitive shadows. I dunno, I just wish he'd take a leaf out of Stephen R. Donaldson's book and include at the back of each book a glossary that rigorously defines what each term means canonically. I realize that this pet peeve is somewhat personal as a result of my education in taxonomy, and it in no way should be taken to suggest that I don't still adore Brandon's work, since I absolutely do, but even allowing some leeway for future expansion of lore, it does strike me a pretty clumsy from an objective standpoint. I think that's probably Brandon's weakest area. 1
TequilaJack Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Thanatos said: TequilaJack The Stormfather was around before Uncle Andy was shattered. When Tanavast took up Honor, the Shard of Honor was not sentient, the sentience of Honor was Tanavast, the vessal. 1/16th of Uncle Andy went to the shard Honor, which incorporated the Stormfather. So Uncle Andy created him not Tanavast. How many Cosmere books have you read? Edit... The Shards themselves have not created anything intentionally wise, it's the vessals that intentionally create things, or modify. From what I read, high storms were around in Roshar before Honor dropped in. Can you link me to stormfather being there before Honor? Missed it.
Lord Mist Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 Could the shards of Honor and Cultivation make the Shard of Unity? Doesn't Dalinar has investiture from both Honor and Cultivation?
Ripheus23 Posted January 13, 2019 Author Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord Mist said: Could the shards of Honor and Cultivation make the Shard of Unity? Doesn't Dalinar has investiture from both Honor and Cultivation? Odium hasn't killed Cultivation yet, though, so when he's like, "We killed you!" he seems to be referring to Dalinar's "Unity" as something he's killed, which would not include Cultivation. Now Odium might be represented as having killed both Tanavast and the proto-quasi-w/e-mind that the Shard of Honor had in its own right, and since Tanavast didn't come back to life in the scene in question, that would leave the Shard and its sort-of mind, in which event Odium's "you" and Dalinar's "I" would refer to that sort-of mind, and Dalinar's statement of identity with Unity would indicate that, in Dalinar's hand, this Shard expresses itself as Unity instead of Honor. This would be the gist of that argument. EDIT: I on the other hand think that the WoBs surrounding Honor's mysterious Ten Purposes, refer to a category of sentient/sapient/something beings, whose deaths led up to, or constituted, the overarching Splintering of the Shard of Honor. So far I would even agree that Dalinar's "Unity" is an expression of the Shard known as Honor. However, I adamantly disbelieve that Dalinar is subconsciously reinterpreting this Unity thing as if it were the entirety of what he would otherwise attribute to the identity of the Almighty as such. I have developed a further theory according to which the peculiar similarities between Odium and Honor entail that Odium has Purposes of his own, Nine in number though, which are the Unmade. [There's a WoB about the similarities in question, which will be posted upon request.] Edited January 13, 2019 by Ripheus23
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: Odium hasn't killed Cultivation yet, though, so when he's like, "We killed you!" he seems to be referring to Dalinar's "Unity" as something he's killed, which would not include Cultivation. Now Odium might be represented as having killed both Tanavast and the proto-quasi-w/e-mind that the Shard of Honor had in its own right, and since Tanavast didn't come back to life in the scene in question, that would leave the Shard and its sort-of mind, in which event Odium's "you" and Dalinar's "I" would refer to that sort-of mind, and Dalinar's statement of identity with Unity would indicate that, in Dalinar's hand, this Shard expresses itself as Unity instead of Honor. This would be the gist of that argument. EDIT: I on the other hand think that the WoBs surrounding Honor's mysterious Ten Purposes, refer to a category of sentient/sapient/something beings, whose deaths led up to, or constituted, the overarching Splintering of the Shard of Honor. So far I would even agree that Dalinar's "Unity" is an expression of the Shard known as Honor. However, I adamantly disbelieve that Dalinar is subconsciously reinterpreting this Unity thing as if it were the entirety of what he would otherwise attribute to the identity of the Almighty as such. I have developed a further theory according to which the peculiar similarities between Odium and Honor entail that Odium has Purposes of his own, Nine in number though, which are the Unmade. [There's a WoB about the similarities in question, which will be posted upon request.] Maybe Honor had/has one or more Avatars, one of which was Unity.
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