Unnerving Character parallels

[animalia]

Does anyone else get a sort of Living Tien vibe from Renarin. Not just Tien specifically but how in the flashbacks of all of the Radiants theres a death, either one they caused directly, or indirectly by failing to protect someone. 

I DO have more to this idea that I can build on, but I want to see if anyone else thinks that there might be something with the first point before I go further. That being said I think that if Renarin DOES die, it will be by his own choosing,  and in a way that will make such an impact on everyone that it would it stop Odium for good, and not just be mere character motivation like with so many other deaths in the story.

 

After all what did the Way Of Kings/Oathbringer say, “The question,’ she replied, ‘is not whether you will love, hurt, dream, and die. It is what you will love, why you will hurt, when you will dream, and how you will die”

[Dalakaar he/him]

Renarin has his own flashbacks in book 7 so if there is a death in his future it might not be till after. (Still possible he could die beforehand like eshonai) Just imho I think he had his “is he going to die?” moment in OB with Jasnah. I don’t see him dying anymore.(or not soon) I see him becoming a fleshed-out character, his impact more through his foresight and connection to Sja-anat/Glys. 

Not sure why his death would have more impact than the others though. Right now he’s just build up without a lot of characterization. 

If i was a betting man I’d guess his flashbacks will be from the intermission between books 5-6.

In the Kholin family I’d guess the death that propels them like Tien does Kaladin would be Dalinars. Or maaabye Adolins. 

[animalia]

Well I also ment he was Tien like in character/personality, he also seems similar to his Mom that way.

Edit: I also never said when the death would take place either. The end of the back five is still possible with this idea.

Edited December 27, 2018 by animalia

[+Invocation]

Renarin is the important brother (in Brandon's own words, there was a WOB about it that I read a while ago, see quote-spoiler) when compared to Adolin, to the point where he fleshed Renarin out a lot before doing much with Adolin, so if he dies, it'll be some really noble, self-sacrificing death.

quote-spoiler (length):

Spoiler

Quote

cinderwild2323

What is the biggest change you've made based on alpha/beta reader feedback? (This goes for any of your books)

Brandon Sanderson

Probably adding Adolin as a main viewpoint character in the first book, which was done because I had trouble striking the balance between Dalinar worrying he was mad, and being a proactive, confident character. Worried better to externalize some of the, "Am I mad" into his son worrying "My dad has gone crazy" while letting Dalinar be more confident that his visions were something important. (I still let him worry a little, of course, but in the original draft, he felt temperamental from vacillation between these two extremes.)

Bringing Adolin to the forefront in the books has had a huge ripple effect through them, as I've been very fond of how his character has been playing out.

Enasor

May I ask why you choose to use Adolin as the viewpoint character to supplement Dalinar as opposed to Renarin? My understanding is Renarin has always been the "most important brother" within SA, which made me wonder why, based on the beta readers comments, you ultimately decided to use Adolin and not your established character to bring forward the dilemma.

I am, obviously, extremely fond of how Adolin has been played out so far and while I have no idea where he is going (but zillions of theories), I am curious to know what his initial purpose in the story was. Did you draft the character's personality just for WoK's needs or did you have an idea of what to do with him when you made the change?

Brandon Sanderson

I was well aware that I needed certain things about Renarin to remain off-screen until later books, and him being a viewpoint character early would undermine these later books.

Adolin is a happy surprise and works exactly because he doesn't need to be at the forefront, even after I boosted his role. With Adolin, what you see is really what you get, which is refreshing in the books--but it also means I don't need huge numbers of pages to characterize him, delve into his backstory, etc. He works as a side character who gives more to the story than he demands pages to fullfill that giving, if that makes sense. Renarin is more like a pandora's box. Open him up, and we're committed to a LOT of pages. (Good pages, but that was the problem with TWOK Prime--everyone was demanding so many pages, from Renarn, to Jasnah, to Kaladin, to Taln, that none of their stories could progress.)

Adolin has basically always had the same personality, from TWOK Prime, through the original draft of the published TWOK, to the revision. The changes to making him more strong a viewpoint character were very natural, and he has remained basically the same person all along--just with an increased role in the story, and more development because of it.

I do discovery write character, usually, as a method of keeping the books from becoming slaves to their outlines. This means that Adolin has gone some new directions, but it's been a growth from the person he was in TWOK Prime. (Which you'll be able to see when I release it, sometime in the hopefully not distant future.)

source

 

But also there's this:

Quote

HellaSober

(Until the second five books, where our primary characters will shuffle. So you Renarin fans will have to be patient.)

Do you worry that assuring us that a character will likely survive the first arc of the series removes some of the tension in their scenes?

(While you've discussed the idea that a main character can have a book about them while they are dead when Dalinar was expected to be central to book 5, this seems different)

Brandon Sanderson

I have said many times before that Renarin and Lift are main characters for the next five, but--as you point out--I've also said that I have no problem having a main character who is actually dead, and their story told through flashbacks and the stories of the other characters. Renarin is not safe, but you will see a lot more from him in the future, even if he does die.

To say more would be to give too many spoilers about the nature of the back five books.

source

 

[animalia]

Awkward question have you heard of Passing Through Gethesmane?

[+Invocation]

8 minutes ago, animalia said:

Awkward question have you heard of Passing Through Gethesmane?

You thinking Renarin will get Death By Personalitied?

[animalia]

29 minutes ago, Invocation said:

You thinking Renarin will get Death By Personalitied?

I was just thinking about how that episode references Christ siting in the Garden and waiting to be betrayed but accepting his fate. I always thought that bit with Renarin and Jasnah echoes that bit of biblical lore.

 

 And before you say anything else I am aware of the Irony of making that statement when if we have a Judas it’s most likely Moash and the one he betrayed was Kaladin. Still had to draw attention to the parallel though.

P.S If I hadn’t noticed that followers of Harmony call themselves PATHians and that one  translation Of Taoism is the WAY I wouldn’t even think to look for these things. Still they are all wrapped up in so many layers of subtlety and misdirection that I doubt ANY of the parallels (if I am correct in looking for these things) will be clear until the end. Like I said Kaladin is a good candidate as well. But I digress.

[+Invocation]

37 minutes ago, animalia said:

I was just thinking about how that episode references Christ siting in the Garden and waiting to be betrayed but accepting his fate. I always thought that bit with Renarin and Jasnah echoes that bit of biblical lore.

 

 And before you say anything else I am aware of the Irony of making that statement when if we have a Judas it’s most likely Moash and the one he betrayed was Kaladin. Still had to draw attention to the parallel though.

P.S If I hadn’t noticed that followers of Harmony call themselves PATHians and that one  translation Of Taoism is the WAY I wouldn’t even think to look for these things. Still they are all wrapped up in so many layers of subtlety and misdirection that I doubt ANY of the parallels (if I am correct in looking for these things) will be clear until the end. Like I said Kaladin is a good candidate as well. But I digress.

Yeah, Sanderson is good at wrapping all that stuff in and then pulling the ol' switcharoo and making it actually about another character you didn't see coming.

[animalia]

Speaking of I tried looking into all THREE Abrahamic religions. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam for Stormlight. Having a bigger field to pull from makes things MORE impossible to narrow down. 

About the only thing I have near any confidence in is how what overlap there might be between real world religions and shard and/or shardworlds etc and even them this ONLY started with noticing similarities between Pathians and the Way the possible yin-yang connection between Preservation and Ruin into Harmony. Combine this with WoB that the Double Eye of the Almighty was inspired by the Jewish Kabalah and I started noticing other connections too (back in Elantris and the original Mistborn trilogy) but they are deliberately left vauge

and that’s on purpose.

 

Sanderson has said that he is a devout believer, but he also feels that no religion should feel it is wrong to say that has the truth

He also strongly believes in applicability over allegory (and we all know he never shys away from showing the worst of religion along with the best)

 

P.S I know I have gotten a bit of topic but if you want those other connections I made let me know