Dalinar' ideal felt incongruous?

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

I'm just curious, but did anyone else besides me think that Dalinar's third Bondsmith Ideal seemed really out of place based on what we know about the Bondsmiths? It seemed to have no relevance whatsoever to his second ideal, or really to the Bondsmiths in general for that matter. It was certainly meaningful to Dalinar specifically, but the Bondsmiths generally? I dunno. And on a tangential note, do we know if "I am Unity" was also an ideal? Because that's always sounded to me like the kind of thing the Bondsmith's final ideal would be, like how the Skybreakers' final ideal is supposedly "I am justice".

[Sandra she/her]

Brandon always said that Bondsmiths are special. And Dalinar is even more special, because the Stormfather has remnants of Honor. Maybe it was an ideal, maybe it has something to do with reforging Honor. Anyway, it's a very interesting scene.

[Quantus he/him]

All the ideals are going to be very personal interpretations of the same general Ideal, but subtleties are going to be added or removed in the translation.  Dalinar's is making a personal statement about bearing Responsibility for both Past and Future, Both the Journey AND the Destination.   For comparison, look at the differences in Kaladin vs Teft's Third Ideal: Teft's relates to a much more personal issue, one that will most likely not apply to most Windrunners. 

 

"I Am UNITY" is something else, definitely not an Ideal.  Best guess (that I dont know if it has been confirmed in WOB yet?) is that Dalinar temporarily Ascended and took up some amount of the Honor shard, but where Tanavast interpreted the Intent behind "Honor" as a matter of Oaths and Bonds between individuals, Dalinar is taking a broader society view of it, turning the more personal Honor idea to a more Community-oriented one.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Quantus
"Third ideal", not Second

[Calderis he/him]

Considering the traits of Bondsmiths are pious and Guiding, nah I think it fits Bondsmiths pretty well. You can't give people advice, at least in most circumstances, without having been through some crem yourself and expect to be be taken seriously. And you can't crawl through crem without having opportunities to accept your situation, or fall, or just give up. Dalinar's past, and accepting it, are as important to his role as who he is now. 

As to "Unity" 

Quote

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

In that one long rejection of Odium, how many Oaths did Dalinar swear before merging the Realms? And is "I am Unity" the fifth.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No, that is not an Oath. He swore one ideal in that experience.

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay. How many Oaths is he on?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The number you think. So, he should have just finished three, right? Or maybe four. I'll have to go look. It's the number that you think it is. I'm not being sneaky on you. There's nothing sneaky there. He doesn't get armor, so I can't remember where he is... He should be at three. "Life before death." "I will unite instead of divide." "I will stand up each time I fall." Yeah, so he's done three.

source

 

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

On 2018-12-07 at 10:59 AM, Calderis said:

Considering the traits of Bondsmiths are pious and Guiding, nah I think it fits Bondsmiths pretty well. You can't give people advice, at least in most circumstances, without having been through some crem yourself and expect to be be taken seriously. And you can't crawl through crem without having opportunities to accept your situation, or fall, or just give up. Dalinar's past, and accepting it, are as important to his role as who he is now. 

As to "Unity" 

 

Yeah, it’s just that in every other case we know of so far, all the ideals of a given class of Knight Radiant at least up to and including the 3rd seem to pertain to a single general theme. With the Windrunners it’s about protecting people and doing what is morally right. With the Skybreakers it’s about justice and following the law. With the Edgedancers it’s basically about paying attention. In the case of the Lightweavers it’s more abstract, but in general it’s about abandoning self-delusion in favour of self-awareness. And prior to the end of Oathbringer, it had seemed that the Bondsmiths were about bringing people together and unification. But Dalinar’s third ideal seemed to me at least to be at best extremely tangential to this. In fact, I’ve often thought that it sounds more like a Skybreaker or Windrunner ideal than a Bondsmith one, because taking responsibility for your actions and striving to do better is at least closely tangential to their themes.

[Calderis he/him]

@Fanghur Rahl again, I disagree.

A Bondsmith, at least of the variety that Dalinar is (I'm not fully convinced that three separate spren hold the same set of oaths), is a mediator. 

Any person who's job is to work with clashing personalities has got to learn to accept and move past failure. It's going to happen, because frankly, people suck. 

I mean, this is a remarkably amiable corner of the internet, and you're still going to have arguments that are fought bitterly. When it comes to people, you can't make everyone comfortable, let alone happy.