The essence of Adonalsium

[Ripheus23]

In other threads it has been debated what the actual notion of a spren is, beyond the "self-aware Investiture" or what, that seems too indiscriminate. Like, how is Nightblood a "robot" spren, why would Rosharans classify Adonalsium as a spren, etc.? Now first off, Sylphrena's little-pieces-of-Honor description reminds me of the notion of tropes in philosophy (not literature). "Flakes of Forms" you might say. Now between particulars and Forms are concepts. So let's say there's a "unit of existence" in each Realm, so objects = Physical, tropes/concepts = Cognitive, & universals (Forms/Spiritwebs) = Spiritual. I think there's a WoB positing that the Spiritual Realm is a domain of Platonic-like entities. So, let's say that sentient physical beings have an innate correspondence between all three Realms. Entities that exist only as spren and Spiritwebs need to be tied, bonded, to individual physical objects, to act in the Physical Realm, even to appear (though this binding is more atmospheric).

A Cognitive Shadow is not a spren originally, then, and would not be said to be a spren except "technically," in that a CS is an entity that originally corresponded to a Physical unit but now only corresponds to a spren and a Spiritweb and which is the author of its self-concept. A "robot" spren is a physical object that does what spren do, i.e. expresses a concept (Nightblood expresses the concept "Destroy evil"). Spren are self-aware Investiture in the sense that their having a Spiritweb makes the concepts into mindful beings, and this is mediated by the general power of Investiture. (Objects with only a physical and mental, but not spiritual, essence, have probably shown up as such in the Cosmere but I won't guess where at the moment.)

Anyway, then, there used to be (and for some there still is) an idea that God doesn't "have" properties, but is its properties. What do we call a concept that is an individual object? What do we call an entity that doesn't have a Spiritweb but is its own Spiritweb? This would have been Adonalsium. It had the full complement of relations (to each Realm) but the only positive value was relative to its Spiritweb. You might say, it was the "spren" of the Spiritual Realm per se. Or you'd say it was the Spiritweb of the entire Realm.

The Shattering, then, would have required the Spiritual Realm itself to be Shattered, maybe?

Edited November 19, 2018 by Ripheus23

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43 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

In other threads it has been debated what the actual notion of a spren is, beyond the "self-aware Investiture" or what, that seems too indiscriminate. Like, how is Nightblood a "robot" spren, why would Rosharans classify Adonalsium as a spren, etc.? Now first off, Sylphrena's little-pieces-of-Honor description reminds me of the notion of tropes in philosophy (not literature). "Flakes of Forms" you might say. Now between particulars and Forms are concepts. So let's say there's a "unit of existence" in each Realm, so objects = Physical, tropes/concepts = Cognitive, & universals (Forms/Spiritwebs) = Spiritual. I think there's a WoB positing that the Spiritual Realm is a domain of Platonic-like entities. So, let's say that sentient physical beings have an innate correspondence between all three Realms. Entities that exist only as spren and Spiritwebs need to be tied, bonded, to individual physical objects, to act in the Physical Realm, even to appear (though this binding is more atmospheric).

A Cognitive Shadow is not a spren originally, then, and would not be said to be a spren except "technically," in that a CS is an entity that originally corresponded to a Physical unit but now only corresponds to a spren and a Spiritweb and which is the author of its self-concept. A "robot" spren is a physical object that does what spren do, i.e. expresses a concept (Nightblood expresses the concept "Destroy evil"). Spren are self-aware Investiture in the sense that their having a Spiritweb makes the concepts into mindful beings, and this is mediated by the general power of Investiture. (Objects with only a physical and mental, but not spiritual, essence, have probably shown up as such in the Cosmere but I won't guess where at the moment.)

The issue with a bunch of these Terms in general is that they are intentionally In-World terms, offered up by actual characters with limited and fallible perspectives, and so Brandon has been intentionally vague about their absolute definitions and/or nature.  Meaning we can offer our best interpretations but there are some aspects that we just dont have the data to know.  So with that said, couple things:

All things that exist in the physical realm exist in all three, even inanimate Objects. In the Cognitive Realm they'd look like those beads (which is a local effect on Roshar), but they still exist in all three as that's how the Dalinar's surge was restoring broken objects, and is the same mechanism as most Cosmere healing.  "Spren" is a Rosharan term for "sentient Investiture", which is why they'd probably apply it to Seons, Shards, and even Adonalsium; but WE know that part to be fundamentally inaccurate as the Shards were and are still full Multirealmic beings, even if they have enough Investiture that they've been crushed down to a Perpendicular state.  Think of "spren" as a term like "spirits" or "kami" from older cultures, were it's a catchall term that applies to all scales of immaterial/magic being.

A Cognitive Shadow is, best I can tell with the examples we have, an instance where Investiture has been used (one way or another) to mimic some or all of the functionality of a previously Sentient Living Being's Spiritweb (as in all 3 realms).  This can be an intellectual 'ghost' of a being that has moved Beyond, or it can be a being that was given enough Investiture at the time of Death to persist in the Cosmere and NOT move on (Heralds or Returned). And there are other more confusing things too like the Shades.

The whole "Robot Spren" statement from Brandon is, I think, an indication that there is a fundamental different between things brought about by Nature (ie spren) and things that are Created by people (TypeIV awakened Objects), but I think the distinction is going to be the Cosmere equivalent of the philosophic AI question of whether it is possible to build a Robot with a Soul.

43 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Anyway, then, there used to be (and for some there still is) an idea that God doesn't "have" properties, but is its properties. What do we call a concept that is an individual object? What do we call an entity that doesn't have a Spiritweb but is its own Spiritweb? This would have been Adonalsium. It had the full complement of relations (to each Realm) but the only positive value was relative to its Spiritweb. You might say, it was the "spren" of the Spiritual Realm per se. Or you'd say it was the Spiritweb of the entire Realm.

The Shattering, then, would have required the Spiritual Realm itself to be Shattered, maybe?

 

The closest analogy I can come up with (as part of a larger Investiture Waveform model) is the general idea that Investiture used to be the equivalent of White Light, and somehow the Shattering managed to pour all Adonalsium's Investiture (which per WOB is ALL investiture in the whole Cosmere) through the Investiture equivalent of a prism, irrevocably "breaking" it into the component "colors" that are changed in quality from the original and where then picked up by 16 of the people responsible. Im guessing that the "Gem" that keeps being mentioned was basically this.  Likely it was Adonalsium's Solid Investiture (ala a godmetal) or even a Gemheart from the pre-shattering Rosharan ecosystem (given that gemhearts are themselves distilled Investiture).