Radiants in a world with no Honor

[Guest Edonidd]

There has been mentions I believe in each book of what Radiants will be able to do with Surges without Honor to set the bounds.   I can't find all of the exact quotes, but in my head they were all quotes by spren and all worried about what humans could do.

 

After a reread of the series, I'm wondering if we've seen hints of things or if there are other explanations to these things.

First, we have seen the spren know what is coming with the bonds, words, and ideals.  Mostly we've experienced new things through Kaladin and Syl, but also somewhat through others.  The spren aren't so much teachers who show/tell tgecradiants how to surgebind, but they do also seem to know what will happen ahead of time.

 

However there have been a handful of cases where spren were surprised by what their Radiant was doing, I'm wondering if those are instances of the KR in question doing something that they would not have been able to do while Honor was alive and in charge.

#1.  Dalinar grabs ...something... and forces the Stormfather into a sword shape against his will.  I'm not sure this one counts.  I think Dalinar could do this at any time due to the bond, but that the Stormfather has asked him not to, rather than the Stormfather wont let him.  Im mostly including this because of The Stormfathers reaction of disbelief.  But it's possible he is shocked and disbelieving that Dalinar broke his word, not shocked that he was able to do it.

#2.  Kaladin shields some humans from the storm with wind spren.  I know people theorized about him creating a vacuum or whatever, but this doesn't feel like any of the other surges we've seen.  He was commanding spren to do his bidding.  That seems like something else.  Syl is amazed at what he did, and does not seem at all like it was expected.

#3.  Kaladin again summoned wind spren on the honor spren ship.  This time he can hear Syl in his head even though she was imprisoned.  Again she was shocked and did not expect this.  They then start talking about the 4th ideal, and she knows he is close.  That is as we expected, Syl should know when he's close to saying an ideal, she also confirms for him that it will be hard.  Later she pretty much confirms that he will get a boost of stormlight shen he says the 4th ideal, and that's how he can beat the Fused.  She seems to know exactly what to expect, which makes me think his commanding the wind spren is not expected or she wouldn't be surprised.  So its something else.

#4. Kakadin stabs a spren with a Sylknife while trying to rescue Elkohar's son.  He kills the spren.  Syl didn't know he/she could do that.

 

Especially #4 brings up a whole bunch of other questions.  Is it a corrupted spren from Sja-Anat?  Or is it just an Odium spren yo begin with?  Is that even a thing?  Is it like one of the spren that was guiding the Listeners that Kal and Moash found?  Or one of the more minor spren that make Regals?  Is it just attracted to whatever is happening there?  It it dead dead, or just deadeye dead?  Is it just physical body destroyed but still fine in cognitive realm?  If Kal/Syl can kill spren, what about other shardblade?  So many new questions from one little paragraph.

 

What do you guys think is going on?  Is Syl actually surprised, or just an element of storytelling to add drama?  Is she surpised because she doesnt really know what will happen, or because Kaladin is doing something beyond the ordinary?

[+Invocation]

Some of this could be explained via Kaladin's potential Resonance, part of Syl not knowing things is also probably from the fact that while this is her second bond, she lost most of herself in between.

As to #4, that's because the spren was almost entirely in the Physical Realm, allowing the Sylknife to interact with it like it would anything else.

The "something" that Dalinar grabs is probably raw Investiture, which I think is a direct result of the whole "I am Unity" thing, just on a smaller scale.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Invocation

[garlick]

I know nale said something to that effect. Something about the bonds and without honor to put checks on them. I feel a lot of that was limiting there power. They destroyed their last planet with surges and left unchecked could do so again. Could he of limited some abilties so they couldn't do some things absolutley.

[Calderis he/him]

12 minutes ago, Edonidd said:

#2.  Kaladin shields some humans from the storm with wind spren.  I know people theorized about him creating a vacuum or whatever, but this doesn't feel like any of the other surges we've seen.  He was commanding spren to do his bidding.  That seems like something else.  Syl is amazed at what he did, and does not seem at all like it was expected.

Adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure. This even makes perfect sense in that context. For example. 

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Could a Windrunner in Shardplate travel to other planets?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Uh, theoretically possible. Take a long time.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, it would. 'Cause he wouldn't need to breathe, if he's got enough Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah, well, I mean, they can control pressure, so. You'd need oxygen scrubbers, but they can also, so... you can create a ball of air around yourself with their power anyway, so--

source

 

14 minutes ago, Edonidd said:

4. Kakadin stabs a spren with a Sylknife while trying to rescue Elkohar's son.  He kills the spren.  Syl didn't know he/she could do that.

Shardblade cut on all three realms, so this isn't entirely unexpected. Unlike a deadeyes, I think this one was actually killed. It's described, if I remember correctly, as ripping apart. 

[Guest Edonidd]

12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure. This even makes perfect sense in that context. For example. 

 

Shardblade cut on all three realms, so this isn't entirely unexpected. Unlike a deadeyes, I think this one was actually killed. It's described, if I remember correctly, as ripping apart. 

We've seen Dalinar do some reshaping with surges, we've seen Lift go awesome, kal falls different directions and sticks things to stuff, Shellan makes illusions, both Jasnah and Shellan soulcast, regrowth from multiple characters, etc.  None of those drew spren like what Kaladin did in that storm.

We have however seen one other Knight Radiant that drew a bunch of lesser spren.  Dalinar drew a bunch of glory spren shen he opened Honors perpendicularity and ascended to Unity.  Another thing that I'm thinking KR absolutely could not do while Honor was around.

 

Yeah, it was described as ripping into a thousand pieces and then disappearing.  Certainly sounded final to me.  The part I. Wondering about though is that Syl didn't think that was possible.  So I'm just curious if its normally possible to kill a spren with a shardblade and/or living sprenblade?  Or is it something that Kaladin did in that moment when it described him as reacting without thinking in immediate rage.  With rage actually being italicized.  The emphasis on his rage, and iralicizing it makes me think there was more to it.  

[Calderis he/him]

@Edonidd I do t. I think any Shardblade, living or dead could cut and kill a spren. I'm not surprised it hasn't happened previously because why would anyone bother to try and cut a spren?

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VindicationKnight

If a person in the Cosmere built a fully sentient and sapient robot would that robot have a soul? How would it interact with Shardblades?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. It would interact with Shardblades the same way that Spren do.

VindicationKnight

How does a Shardblade interact with a Spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Shardblades cut on all three realms. I'm not going to say too much here, though I might note that it's possible a robot like you say would act more like nightblood than anything else--depends on what is involved in the creation, and how you determine the difference between a robot and a golem for these purposes.

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