Why does Jasnah value music over visual arts?

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

In Shallan's initial interview with Jasnah, she asks Shallan to sing for her, but then completely neglects the visual arts when Shallan mentions them. This seems very incongruous to me, especially considering in the scene, Jasnah has her sing in the middle of the testing. 

 

Why would Jasnah favor music? It seems to me that visual arts would be far more important to her as a veristitalian, as it allows her to see visual representations of things in the past, whereas, unless you're a listener, songs are not generally used as historical records. There's enough written history in human Roshar that songs would be obsolete as a way to preserve facts.

 

Thoughts?

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Jasnah has been studying the Parshendi, and knows of their Songs. She probably wanted someone who could replicate their Music.

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

Jasnah has been studying the Parshendi, and knows of their Songs. She probably wanted someone who could replicate their Music.

 

Definitely plausible. Upvote. On the other hand, does she know specifics about their songs, or does she just know they have a way of communicating using music? 

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

Definitely plausible. Upvote. On the other hand, does she know specifics about their songs, or does she just know they have a way of communicating using music? 

I don't remember exactly how much she knows about it, but I do remember her musing about the importance of the Parshendi music during her prelude.

[Moogle]

WoR:

Waveforms are important on Roshar. It's not a coincidence that the Soulcasting ardents were humming together to Soulcast something, or that the Parshendi sung together to summon the Everstorm. Cities seem to be made via cymatics, there's a link to cymatics when Kaladin's Windrunner glyph appearing in frost whenever he uses Stormlight, and all Vorin writings are symmetrical and made to resemble soundwaves.

 

The question, I think, is why Jasnah regards Shallan's ability to draw glyphs so poorly rather than why she thinks the musical arts are important. I suspect she's a little biased from her issue with Vorinism.

[Tempus]

Moogle is correct - has anyone revisited the waveforms are Focus on Roshar theory yet, incidentally?

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

Moogle, I would hug you if that wasn't physically impossible right now. 

Edited May 9, 2014 by EMTrevor

[skaa he/him]

Isomere came up with the waveform focus theory last year. He later revised it to make sound the only focus.

 

Given that the Illumination Surge manipulates all sorts of waveforms, I guess his original theory was closer to the truth, although I believe waveforms are just one aspect of the actual focus.

 

As for Jasnah neglecting the visual arts' role in scholarship, I say that's not unreasonable even from a mundane standpoint. It would not be embarrassing for a scholar to hire someone else to make illustrations for a book she has written. But if an artistic scholar wrote a song, it would not be a good sign if someone else had to compose the music for it. Also, why would you delve into the field of music theory if you had no skill in performing music? (I mean, you could, but it would be harder to gain a good reputation that way.)

 

(Edit: I misinterpreted the original post. I now hide this shameful act in spoiler tags.)

Besides, if you think Jasnah was insulting the visual arts in general in the interview scene, you'd be wrong:

 

"Writing?" Jasnah asked.

"I know all of the major, minor, and topical glyphs and can paint them calligraphically."

"So can most children."

"The glyphwards that I paint are regarded by those who know me as quite impressive."

"Glyphwards?" Jasnah said. "I had reason to believe you wanted to be a scholar, not a purveyor of superstitious nonsense."

"I have kept a journal since I was a child," Shallan continued, "in order to practice my writing skills."

"Congratulations," Jasnah said. "Should I need someone to write a treatise on their stuffed pony or give an account of an interesting pebble they discovered, I shall send for you. Is there nothing you can offer that shows you have true skill?"

Shallan blushed. "With all due respect, Brightness, you have a letter from me yourself, and it was persuasive enough to make you grant me this audience."

"A valid point," Jasnah said, nodding. "It took you long enough to make it. How is your training in logic and its related arts?"

 

As you can see, Jasnah was asking Shallan about her writing skills. This includes penmanship, spelling and grammar, sentence construction, thought organization, and rhetoric. But Shallan just focused on the penmanship aspect, bragging about her calligraphy skill. It really was childish. No wonder Jasnah was pissed. Notice how Shallan only managed to save herself a bit when she pointed out the effectiveness of her letter's rhetoric.

 

Edit: Crap, I forgot about this scene:

 

"But you haven't finished your testing of me yet," Shallan said, forcing herself to be bold. "Surely you won't give judgment until you have."

"I haven't finished?" Jasnah asked, frowning.

"You didn't ask me about all of the feminine arts. You left out painting and drawing."

"I have never had much use for them."

"But they are of the arts," Shallan said, feeling desperate. This was where she was most accomplished! "Many consider the visual arts the most refined of them all. I brought my portfolio. I would show you what I can do."

Jasnah pursed her lips. "The visual arts are frivolity. I have weighed the facts, child, and I cannot accept you. I'm sorry."

 

 

 

Lastly, Jasnah did later acknowledge the value of the visual arts when she made Shallan copy a chasmfiend-like "Voidbringer" illustration for Dalinar.

 

"'This is a depiction from one of the books here,'" Danlan read. "'My new ward is quite skilled at drawing, and so I had her reproduce it for you. Tell me. Does it remind you of anything?'"

 

 

I don't think Jasnah's the kind of person who'd give such an off-hand praise just like that. She didn't have to mention it at all. It seems to me that Jasnah was proud of her ward's skill with the visual arts.

Edited May 9, 2014 by skaa

[Seloun]

I'd offer two, relatively prosaic, reasons for this -

 

First, the context of her questioning: singing is something that requires no other accompaniment and can be done quickly (Jasnah is in a hurry, they're standing/walking around on another errand). Jasnah doesn't ask Shallan to play an instrument either (though to be fair Shallan does state that her voice is better than her skill with instruments). Visual arts can't be done without some implement and (for pretty much anyone except Shallan) pretty time consuming. While this can be addressed for drawings and paintings by bringing a portfolio, I don't think Jasnah felt that she would have changed her mind regardless how well Shallan's artistic skill was given her previous answers (this is pretty common in interviewing after all - if they're already gone after the first couple of interviewers it's common to just scrap the rest of the interview).

 

Second, Jasnah isn't particularly good at drawing. As Dalinar notes:

 

 

Jasnah had elegant handwriting, of course—Jasnah rarely did anything without taking the time to perfect it.

 

and

 

 

Still, the picture was marvelous. This isn’t Jasnah, Dalinar realized. Whoever was doing the drawing was far, far more talented than his niece.

 

I'm pretty sure Jasnah tried drawing, found her talent lacking in the area, and basically abandoned study of it since she couldn't become near-perfect at it. It's a little petty, but even Jasnah's not quite perfect. It's quite possible that she doesn't really feel qualified to judge artistic merit if she hasn't studied art in a scholarly manner. It seems pretty clear that she's impressed by Shallan's skill at art and is more than willing to take advantage of it (e.g. the above scene where Jasnah has Shallan reproduce the picture for Dalinar) but she's probably much weaker in that area than e.g. history (unsurprisingly) or less obviously, music.

 

This might have a corollary (given what Jasnah asks Shallan about first) in that Jasnah might actually be a really good singer or musician.

[Aleksiel]

From a metatext perspective, I'd say because otherwise Jasnah would have taken Shallan as a ward much easily and it would have made it seem cheaper, like it wasn't really a big deal that Jasnah took her. 

[Leuthie]

The thing I love about "waveform theory" talk is how universal it is. Light, sound, general vibrations, viral propagation...just about everything can be thought of as a wave. Its like saying that a certain chef specializes in food. Of course you're not wrong, but you're not saying anything, either

[skaa he/him]

The thing I love about "waveform theory" talk is how universal it is. Light, sound, general vibrations, viral propagation...just about everything can be thought of as a wave. Its like saying that a certain chef specializes in food. Of course you're not wrong, but you're not saying anything, either

I can't wait for Shallan to realize that *everything* is a waveform and therefore subject to the Illumination Surge. Well, it's not as if the Transformation Surge isn't equally universally applicable.

[kari-no-sugata]

Would be fun to see what Shallan can do with sound and if she can enhance her singing to have interesting effects. Would make her more like a bard (and Hoid)

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

So, in essence, song as an emotional soulcasting medium?

[happyman he/him]

So, in essence, song as an emotional soulcasting medium?

 

That's pretty close to what it is in the real world.  Just add a touch of magic, and who knows?  It makes sense to me.