Kabsal's Origin

[KC Hammer]

We know that some members of the Ghostbloods are world hoppers, and we usually identify world hoppers by actions that seem odd to the people of the world they are on. While rereading the The Way of Kings, I noticed in a discussion with Shallan after cursing, Kabsal looks up and says sorry as if to the Almighty. Shallan comments about him apologizing to the ceiling, and that if he wanted to talk to the Almighty he should burn a prayer. As an ardent or at least someone raised Veden, I would think he would know this and not have the impulse to speak upwards to a God. This just got me thinking that maybe he was also a world hopper and I am wondering what others think about the theory. 

[NoiseSpren he/him]

Nice! I have never noticed that. Here, take an upvote and a cookie (extra healthy with lots of Fe in it).

[Ripheus23]

35 minutes ago, KC Hammer said:

Kabsal looks up and says sorry as if to the Almighty.

I wish I had better memory, have we been shown a Cosmere religion on another world where people look up when praying? Or is this an indication that Kabsal has Worldhopped to/from a currently unwritten Shardworld?

[KC Hammer]

That is a good point. I can't think of any off hand that do. Maybe Survivorists would. However Kabsal's description doesn't really fit a Scadrian. 

[kalamitous_emoashions he/him]

Perhaps one of the many Era 1 Scadrial religions? 

[Calderis he/him]

I honestly believe that despite any affiliation with the Ghostbloods, that he was both native and an ardent. 

His hatred of Jasnah seemed all too genuine, and I think his view of her, his own personal "hunt," may be what led him to them in the first place. 

[KC Hammer]

10 minutes ago, Calderis said:

His hatred of Jasnah seemed all too genuine, and I think his view of her, his own personal "hunt," may be what led him to them in the first place. 

That seems reasonable. Though Jasnah was going against the Ghostbloods plans, and if he was a true believer in their goals I think its also reasonable that he could genuinely hate her for that. You do raise a good point that I had not considered before though.

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, KC Hammer said:

We know that some members of the Ghostbloods are world hoppers, and we usually identify world hoppers by actions that seem odd to the people of the world they are on. While rereading the The Way of Kings, I noticed in a discussion with Shallan after cursing, Kabsal looks up and says sorry as if to the Almighty. Shallan comments about him apologizing to the ceiling, and that if he wanted to talk to the Almighty he should burn a prayer. As an ardent or at least someone raised Veden, I would think he would know this and not have the impulse to speak upwards to a God. This just got me thinking that maybe he was also a world hopper and I am wondering what others think about the theory. 

It is odd, but they burn prayers with the idea that the smoke carries the prayers up to the Almighty. Plus Honor road the storms and while modern Rosharans don't know that, some understanding that the Almighty is in the sky seems to have remained. 

EDIT: "Almighty above" is a common Rosharan expression, they think he's up there. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Child of Hodor

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Am I the only one who likes Kabsal? He was funny, and seemed like a nice dude, except for the poison and all that. And well, he could be a Worldhopper, but I think the evidence is a little weak, even though OP has a great eye for catching details. 

[Gray to he/him]

I always assumed Shallan was making a joke rather than being literal. Like she was teasing him for not doing the proper ritual or something.

4 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Am I the only one who likes Kabsal? He was funny, and seemed like a nice dude, except for the poison and all that. And well, he could be a Worldhopper, but I think the evidence is a little weak, even though OP has a great eye for catching details. 

I liked him too. Even though he tried to murder jasnah, he did try to save Shallan from the poison

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

4 minutes ago, Gray to said:

 

I liked him too. Even though he tried to murder jasnah, he did try to save Shallan from the poison

Agreed. He wasn’t necessarily evil even. He just tried to kill Jasnah.

[KC Hammer]

29 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Am I the only one who likes Kabsal? He was funny, and seemed like a nice dude, except for the poison and all that. And well, he could be a Worldhopper, but I think the evidence is a little weak, even though OP has a great eye for catching details. 

I have never been certain that it wasn't just an act to get close. If he was genuine, then, yes I like him as well. And you are correct, the evidence is certainly weak.

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, KC Hammer said:

I have never been certain that it wasn't just an act to get close. If he was genuine, then, yes I like him as well. And you are correct, the evidence is certainly weak.

I found him charming and I think he was genuine about a lot of things. Like @Calderis I think he was genuinely upset by Jasnah's heresy. When Shallan tells him she thinks Jasnah is trying to prove the existence of the Voidbringers he seems super upset that she would deny the Almighty, but believe in his enemies. 

I think he also really did care about Shallan and was tempted to abandon his mission to be with her. He tried to give her the jam antidote (jamtidote ), before he took any himself when he died. It's hard to know for sure, but he wasn't so bad ... apart from the attempted murder.

He honestly doesn't feel like he fits with the rest of the Ghostbloods we met who all seem like ruthless, borderline psychos. They try to murder new members and their poor innocent carriage drivers, they killed all those people on that ship (which was done by hired killers, but still). In Ch. 22 of OB Mraize says things like:  

Quote

"Morality is an axis that doesn't interest us," Mraize said calmly. "Only loyalty and power are relevant" 

"Urithiru must remain strong if we are to properly use the advent of the Voidbringers." ... "This is a power we will control, but we must not let either side gain dominance yet."

They're all like "Good is a point of view, Anakin" 

They don't seem to have noble or religious goal while Kabsil seems to believe he's serving a higher purpose. Maybe he's a newbie or he's really good at pretending. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Child of Hodor

[animalia]

I have a feeling that the Ghost bloods are up to some DARK rust. They basically real you in slowly. Until it's too late. I also think that the reason they want to kill Jasnah so badly is that she is the only person to see the heart of their operations and live. That being said I have VERY little evidence to base this off of and lot of this is my gut instinct. I am mainly saying this now in case it turns out to be right. But suffice to say I havn't even began to scratch the surface of how DARK and TWISTED my theory is.

Edited November 19, 2018 by animalia

[+robardin he/him]

On 10/24/2018 at 3:06 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

Agreed. He wasn’t necessarily evil even. He just tried to kill Jasnah.

"We look after our own... We do not offer the invitation [to be one of the Ghostbloods] to just anyone.

[We moved to assassinate Jasnah] after she, in turn, had assassinated a number of our members. You didn't think her hands were clean of blood, did you, Shallan?

...Your family has a long history of involvement in these events."

Shallan's own father was a Ghostblood, though her mother and brother were aligned with the Skybreakers, which is why her mother tried to kill her. (Will Shallan realize that that implies it would have been only a matter of time before Helaran came to do the same?)

Also, now that Jasnah's resurfaced alive, the GBs are probably going to try to kill her again. Unless the Ghostbloods accept weregild and Jasnah were interested in making peace.

And who were these other Ghostbloods that Jasnah killed or had killed? Were those hits some of the unspoken history between her and "Liss, the Weeper" assassin with the Shardblade?

Edited November 19, 2018 by robardin