Characters that are compared to each other in the books

[Jenet]

Hi!

I am no sure if this has been covered already, but it strikes me that Sanderson does a lot of comparing two pairs of characters, and showing us how one of them chooses differently than the other when given approximately the same chances, opportunities or difficulties.

I will list the pairs that I have noticed already, I bet there are many more that I haven't discovered. I would be happy if you could point others out to me, because this kind of thinking appeals to my crypticspren. Also, I am interested in hearing about your reactions to the pairs, and how they solve their problems differently, and why perhaps one has found better solutions that the other of the pair.

1. Kaladin and Moash:  They are both from difficult backgrounds and bear a grudge towards lighteyes/the king. Both lost close family members because of Elhokar's and Roshone's faults. They both get the opportunity to lead a team of slaves and to convert them into something more. Both are forced to lead a siege front line crew.

2. Dalinar and Amaram:  Both have an honorable facade. Both have troubled pasts where they have done terrible things in war. Both believe in honour. Both are challenged by Odium and forced to be a part of Odium's plan.

3. Shallan and Kaladin: Both have very difficult pasts  and troublesome memories that they try to cover up. Both are early radiants that are forced to find out about their nahel bond by themselves, with very little help. Both struggle with psychological challenges. Both have met Gaz and Tvlakv while being a slave or a lone woman without resources.

4: Shallan and Szeth: Both seem to have bonded a spren early and to have "killed" their spren by being forced to abandon their bond.

5. Elhokar and Shallan: Both are lying to themselves. Elhokar refuses to see his shortcomings, and Shallan is unable to remember her terrible past. Both are budding lightweavers.

6: Jasnah and Shallan: Both are scolars with a difficult childhood. We know that they have experienced very traumatic incidents when they were very young.

7: Gaz and Lopen: Both struggle with missing body parts: Lopen missing an arm, Gaz missing an eye. 

8: Adolin and Elhokar: Both grew up in the shadow of very powerful fathers with all kinds of resources available.

I could go on like this. But I would be interested in what kind of comparisons or patterns other people see? And how you see the differences in solutions that the characters come up with?

 

[Leyrann]

2 hours ago, Jenet said:

7: Gaz and Lopen: Both struggle with missing body parts: Lopen missing an arm, Gaz missing an eye. 

I think this one is stretching a little.

That being said, Brandon loves having characters functioning as foils of one another, and it functions as a good way of making readers think about choices; why does Kaladin choose one thing and Moash, despite having Kaladin as an example, choose something else?

[Jenet]

16 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

I think this one is stretching a little.

That being said, Brandon loves having characters functioning as foils of one another, and it functions as a good way of making readers think about choices; why does Kaladin choose one thing and Moash, despite having Kaladin as an example, choose something else?

What do you mean is stretching it? I find it interesting to see how they are coping differently. Would be interesting to see if Gaz ends up teaching other one-eyed people "one-eyed Alethi jokes" just to make them feel better. But thinking about it, he might just do things like that after Shallan has influenced him for a while.

[Leyrann]

Just now, Jenet said:

What do you mean is stretching it? I find it interesting to see how they are coping differently. Would be interesting to see if Gaz ends up teaching other one-eyed people "one-eyed Alethi jokes" just to make them feel better. But thinking about it, he might just do things like that after Shallan has influenced him for a while.

I mean that just both of them missing a body part doesn't mean they're foils of one another. Kind of like saying Vin and Elend are foils of one another because they're both Mistborn.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I agree with Leyrann that some are a stretch, but there are absolutely characters who work as foils, especially in OB. The Dalinar-Amaram thing was the best thing about Amarams rushed character arc in my opinion. 

I think we will see a foil relationship between Szeth and Nale in the future. I suspect that Szeth will be the good version of following codes and laws while Nale will be the flawed one. 

@Leyrann Your Mistborn comparison is a spoiler, so I’d recommend changing it to something like Vin and Kelsier instead to avoid accidentally spoiling people who haven’t read Mistborn yet. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Toaster Retribution

[Jenet]

As I am not a native English speaker, I must ask you to please explain to me what you mean by the word "foils". What I intended with my post, was to start searching for more interesting character lines to compare than the obvious ones, like Dalinar/Amaram or Kaladin/Moash. And to find out if there are ways to compare people with some similar traits/injuries/experiences that react differently to the same experience, and what we may learn from the way they cope.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jenet

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

13 minutes ago, Jenet said:

As I am not a native English speaker, I must ask you to please explain to me what you mean by the word "foils". What I intended with my post, was to start searching for more interesting character lines to compare than the obvious ones, like Dalinar/Amaram or Kaladin/Moash. And to find out if there are ways to compare people with some similar traits/injuries/experiences that react differently to the same experience, and what we may learn from the way they cope.

 

I am not a native english-speaker either, but foils in this context should mean that the characters shows different sides of something. Amaram acts as a foil to Dalinar by showing a different way of handling the pain of mistakes in the past. 

I also understand your point with the thread better now after this post than after your opening post. I thought that you were looking for Kaladin/Moash and Dalinar/Amaram relationships, and then Lopen/Gaz, Elhokar/Shallan, and others would have been a stretch, I think. But if you are looking for less obvious parallells, then nothing here is really a stretch. And then there are also a whole ton of characters to examine:

Dalinar/Sadeas - Both are Highprinces in Alethkar, and conquered a kingdom, yet took completely different paths after that. 

Axies/Arclo - Both are immortal and feared, and have vastly different ways to live their lives, and vastly different attitudes. 

Rysn/Hobber along with Lopen and Gaz - All have/had a physical handicap of some sorts.

The list goes on...

[Leyrann]

Foil: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Foil

[Jenet]

I find the most intriguing part of the series is to study how different people cope with the same circumstances. I fear that we may limit our thinking by putting a label on how we philosophize. 

Take Taravangian, who has been given the ability to peep into the future. Renarin has too, in a way. How are they using their ability? What are they doing differently?

And why is Adolin able to take up a certain level of responsibility despite of being raised in the shadow of his very dominant father? And at the same time, Elhokar is never able to reach any kind of independant leadership that is respected, maybe because he never got the chance to try leading on his own? And funnily enough, Elhohar ends up trying to become a real king, at the same time that Adolin refuses to become one.

Or Kaladin versus Elhokar. Why is Kaladin seen as a hero, while Elhokar only dreams of being one?

 

[Solarserpent]

Taravangian's foil is Dalinar. Both are leaders who want to do the most for their people. Taravangian looks at it through the eyes of guaranteed solutions even if he has to deal with guilt. He is a fatalist and a pessimist. Dalinar believes that if everyone does their duty and tries their best then anything is possible. He's resolute and an optimist. 

[Perestein]

8.

Adolin is inspired by resistance, as evidenced by Dalinars memories. Elhokar is troubled by resistance. It feels to me like Gavilar was preoccupied by doubts and troubles at an earlier time than Dalinar- therefore it seems likely to me that Elhokar has become much less straightforward. 

 

Also so I can imagine that growing up in the shadow of a natural born leader and thinker makes a lesser and/or younger Elhokar struggle with reaching something even close to the same level. Adolin grows up knowing that his father is an alcoholic, but also the greatest fighter alive. He can aspire to this in the sword- arena, and being an intelligent young man, he sort of downplays himself, giving himself time and «space» to manouver in his own soul? 

[Jenet]

2 minutes ago, Perestein said:

8.

Adolin is inspired by resistance, as evidenced by Dalinars memories. Elhokar is troubled by resistance. It feels to me like Gavilar was preoccupied by doubts and troubles at an earlier time than Dalinar- therefore it seems likely to me that Elhokar has become much less straightforward. 

 

Also so I can imagine that growing up in the shadow of a natural born leader and thinker makes a lesser and/or younger Elhokar struggle with reaching something even close to the same level. Adolin grows up knowing that his father is an alcoholic, but also the greatest fighter alive. He can aspire to this in the sword- arena, and being an intelligent young man, he sort of downplays himself, giving himself time and «space» to manouver in his own soul? 

Thanks for some new and interesting thoughts on these two characters. And thanks for understanding my intention with my post.