Ripheus23 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ruin in MBE1 was a villain as a Vessel who'd been perverted. Rayse is a villain-Vessel who was already evil and has become even more so. However, if the Shards in themselves have some kind of sentience or sapience or awareness or what, would it be possible to have the Shards as such become antagonists? Maybe it's hard for a Shard to defend against being picked up so this would provide for an easy way out for the protagonists (get close enough to the Shard and take it---so maybe the Shard would be on the run?), or maybe Shards are drawn towards being picked up (I think I've seen a WoB about this?), or who knows but it would be an interesting way to twist the ultimate endgame, if possible...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 he/him Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 At this point the Shards are not evil, not even Odium or Ruin. The vessels can be corrupted/evil as you mention but thats all. However if a Shard is left unheld long enough it becomes sentient. That coukd be terrifying, I really dont want to know what the sentient embodiments of hatred and decay look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 It's possible. The Shards desire, on some level, an intelligence or sapience to direct them and will develop one on their own if they aren't picked up. That's essentially what Spren are on a smaller level. It's possible this is what Adonalsium was before "he was killed". A massive amount of investiture that gained a mind of it's own and became a problem. Quote General Signed Books 2016 (Jan. 1, 2016)#2Feb. 1, 2016 Share Copy imriel452 (Paraphrased) I asked for "Info on why Adonalsium shattered". Brandon Sanderson Adonalsium Shattered because he was killed. Quote Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)#2 Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Would it be possible for an inanimate object that was invested to the point of sentience Ascend to Shardhood? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] To become a Vessel of Adonalsium, or become a Shard through...? This is a tricky question because the power left alone will become sapient. And at that point, the distinction between being a Shard and a Vessel is fine but still extant. And I would say the power could not become a Vessel in the same way because it's defined as something different. But it is possible for the power to be left alone and to gain sapience on its own. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] The example we were thinking of was Sel. It was stated in Arcanum that the landscape itself was invested to the point of.. Could the planet of Sel be the Vessel of Devotion? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] At this point, it's playing semantics, and I would say no. But there are people in-Cosmere that would argue that the semantic distinction is irrelevant and that it is the same Quote Stormlight Three Update #4 (Sept. 8, 2016)#1Oct. 4, 2016 Share Copy Argent You've said that Investiture tends to develop sapience on its own. Is this a function of the amount of Investiture alone (i.e. any pile of Investiture large enough will develop sapience eventually), or does the process require extra effort (e.g. a Command from an Awakener, an action by a Shard, etc.)? Brandon Sanderson Under the right circumstances, a pile of investiture will eventually become self-aware. But there is no specific timing. The more investiture clumped together, the more likely--and the closer to human-level intelligence it is likely to obtain. Of course, if you leave matter alone long enough (on a galactic scale) it will eventually end up becoming sapient too. So this isn't that different. (Well, okay, it is.) Boogalyhu34 Are humans already sapient and intelligent because their Spiritual DNA tell their innate investiture what connections to make or what weird soul pattern to go into. Brandon Sanderson Let's RAFO that for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ruin and Odium are not really evil. There could defenitely be a kind Ruin, I think, strange as it may sound. Odium... eh. I don’t think hmthat Shard will be villain of anything else than Stormlight. Ten books worth of it should be enough. I could see Ruin come back though, even if it basically means that Sazed has to die (which I think he will, sooner or later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ruin wasn't also just about physical deaths but all kinds of change of state and deaths like marriages(end of maiden/bachelor life), festivals (the end of routinary and change to much celebrative mood and actions for people). Ruin doesn't necessarily have act like how Ati did. It had to depend on the vessel and how he interprets Ruin(weird how all Ruin vessel so far are kind people for the shard of death) A shard(not just a splinter) can definitely gain sentience/sapience under the right condition as vessel-less. Yeah shards aren't evil but I can see the possibility of one negative-oriented(Dominion/Ruin/something that can go insane without the correct vessel) became vessel-less and gain its own mind eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 A shard could develop a mind of its own if lefted alone long enough. But it's just one of the possible outcomes, another is the auto-splintering of the Shard itself. Regardless, as the developing of the mind is something gradual... Probably in the early stages of its new formed mind, the Shard would simply start to active seek a proper Vessel in an active way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Yata said: Regardless, as the developing of the mind is something gradual... Probably in the early stages of its new formed mind, the Shard would simply start to active seek a proper Vessel in an active way I think it seeking someone is likely. Quote Khyrindor You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Brandon Sanderson Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created. Recognize that the term cognitive shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this: Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality. A mind (cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture. When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul. Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety. linkhyrule5 Huh. ... Kandra are almost literally stapled to their bodies with Hemalurgy - would they count as such, to the in-setting scholars? Brandon Sanderson No, they wouldn't. They are beings who have had their souls twisted by Hemalurgy--the soul never left, it's just been messed up. Someone else who has a soul stapled to a body with Hemalurgy would count though. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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