Tempus Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Reading over the Ars Arcanum in Words of Radiance, there is a phrase that I've remarked on many times, as have many others. In the bit about lightweaving, it states: In many ways, this is the most similar ability to the original Yolish variant, which excites me. Today however, I remarked just how important this sentence is, because of all the things it implies. I was blinded by the whole "Yolish" red herring - the chapters of Liar of Brandon's website made me go 'ah, yes of course it is to' and I never really read the phrase. But there is so much more in this one tidbit. The first important bit is: the most similar ability to the original Yolish variant. This implies a few things. The magic is similar to the abilities on Yolen. 'Most similar' implies that there are many other abilities similar to Yolish magic, more than a few It also implies the author is familiar enough with them to make comparisons. The use of the words similar and variant show that that Yolish abilities all worked slightly differently As a conclusion, I think this a strong supporting phrase for the "Yolen has all magics" school of thought that has been bandied about from time to time. BONUS INFO: The Ars Arcanum author is highly familiar with Yolish magic of multiple types. How else could they make comparisons, and speak so authoritatively? How could they qualify it as the most, unless they had at least a casual understanding of the majority of the others? If they visited Yolen post-shattering (and if Yolen is still around), then how did they know it was the original? This strongly implies the author is from Yolen, or has associated significantly with someone from Yolen. Our current leading Ars Arcanum author is Khriss, who is super knowledgeable but isn't from Yolen, and is many many years to young to have been on pre-shattering Yolen. Nazh, another favoured contender, is highly suspected to be from Threnody, so same arguments apply. It is of course possible that they were simply taught about Yolish magic. But it is interesting to note it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Khriss? Like, from White Sand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haradion Drogon Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yep. Still we know Hoid can at least one student on world singing. My theory is that she encountered Hoid at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Don't forget that the Seventeenth Shard are associated with the Dragon Shard, which is presumably located on Yolen. Given that Khriss is said to be even more knowledgeable than Hoid - who is from Yolen and would thus know of all the original variants - I think it is a safe bet that she has had good access at least to information about the planet and its magics.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Is the Dragon a Shard? When did we find that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Don't think we did, but many people support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Well, in the Letter, Hoid refers to the receiver as "old reptile", and someone asked Brandon at a signing whether this was because the receiver was a dragon, which he confirmed. Now, it is disputable whether the dragon in question is indeed a Shard, but since he is referred to as "essentially immortal", and given the intimate knowledge the receiver has with Adonalsium and the the Shards of Roshar, it seems likely that he is, indeed, a Shard. Edited April 30, 2014 by Aether 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, in the Letter, Hoid refers to the receiver as "old reptile", and someone asked Brandon at a signing whether this was because the receiver was a dragon, which he confirmed. Now, it is disputable whether the dragon in question is indeed a Shard, but since he is referred to as "essentially immortal", and given the intimate knowledge the receiver has with Adonalsium and the the Shards of Roshar, it seems likely that he is, indeed, a Shard. Sounds like a solid bit of reasoning. Has anyone ever asked whether the original Shardholders were all human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think so yes, and I think he partially RAFOed it. The anwer was something like "there were three sentien races on Yolen" or something. Let me take a dive and see if I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haradion Drogon Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, has hasn't said that the original shardholders were all human, but he did say that there were Three sentient races on Yolen, and that all original shareholders were native to Yolen. Seeing as there are plenty of ways of becoming immortal in the cosmere, I wouldn't be willing to say definitely that the dragon in a shard, especially as Hoid indicates that it is something recent in their personal history... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Took me literally ten seconds to find it: NutiketAiel Were the original sixteen Shardholders after the shattering all human?Brandon SandersonUh … RAFO. There are three races on Yolen. Three sentient races.<source> 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Took me literally ten seconds to find it: Wow, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I don't necessarily agree (though I do see your point). The interpretation have been using is "In many ways, this [form of Lightweaving] is the most similar [illusion-based] ability to the original Yolish [Lightweaving] variant, which excites me." In other words, it sounded to me like the author is familiar with multiple versions of illusion-based magic (e.g. Aons, the Returned's* ability to change shape**, the Lightweaving surge), and this one - Rosharan Lightweaving - is the one closest to the original variant. * God Beyond, that's an atrocious way of saying this. Screw you, English. ** Though, to be fair, I don't consider this a valid "version of illusion-based magic." Yeah, I just references myself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 * God Beyond, that's an atrocious way of saying this. Screw you, English. Storming language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 I don't necessarily agree (though I do see your point). The interpretation have been using is "In many ways, this [form of Lightweaving] is the most similar [illusion-based] ability to the original Yolish [Lightweaving] variant, which excites me." In other words, it sounded to me like the author is familiar with multiple versions of illusion-based magic (e.g. Aons, the Returned's* ability to change shape**, the Lightweaving surge), and this one - Rosharan Lightweaving - is the one closest to the original variant. * God Beyond, that's an atrocious way of saying this. Screw you, English. ** Though, to be fair, I don't consider this a valid "version of illusion-based magic." Yeah, I just references myself. The Returned changing shape is most certainly not illusion - from all the WoB we have it's almost certainly in the same sort of class as Forging, Soulcasting, Feruchemical gold healing, Stormlight Healing, and other cognitive shape changing abilities. Which means that other than the Aons, there are no known other illusion abilities. The Ars Arcanum author has been to Sel, of course, and there may be other worlds with illusion abilities. While I agree you could interpret it that way, it's not as exciting =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted April 30, 2014 Report Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, if it makes you happier, I am not opposed to the idea that all magics existed on Yolen - I subscribe to the "Shardic Lenses" theory, or some form of it, so I believe that the Shattering of Adonalsium didn't introduce any new magic to the cosmere, it just made the already-present magic more... isolated, and in a way, focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I think all of the magic systems existed in a way on Yolen, but they were different. We already know that Hoid's Lightweaving is different from Rosharan version. I suspect that some forms of magic combined elements from the various magic systems. Alas, providing support would require discussing White Sand, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Having read White Sands, I really don't get what you're going for there. Aether of Night, on the other hand, is a big support, but to get that connection you don't have to have even read it. You just need to know that Liar has Aethers in it from the sample chapters, and that AoN obviously has Aethers in it too from the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) I may be remembering Hoid's Lightweaving wrong, but don't the powders he uses change color, as if he's spent the fuel in them? If so, I think you can figure out what I'm implying. EDIT: If I'm straying too close to discussing unpublished works, I certainly understand if this reply must be deleted. Edited May 5, 2014 by DSC01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I don't remember that at all, actually. I just remember that it worked with pretty much any powder. There wasn't any fuel aspect that I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I may be wrong. I had a vague memory, probably from the Warbreaker scene, of him doing something with a white powder that turned black as it fell to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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