Willshaper Wallar Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 What is the evidence behind Trell being an Avatar of Autonomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 There's... A lot of discussion and debate. These two threads cover most of it, but I warn you, there's a lot to read. It essentially comes down to process of elimination, which reaches Odium or Autonomy, and out of the two, the MO fits what we know of Autonomy better, and considering the Era two doesn't even begin until at least the gap between book 5 and 6 of SA, Odium seems a bit problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draginon Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 @Calderis Process of elimination on the ones we know. Imagine if Trell was actually one of the remaining 6 unknowns, unless it's already been confirmed that Trell is one we know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Draginon said: @Calderis Process of elimination on the ones we know. Imagine if Trell was actually one of the remaining 6 unknowns, unless it's already been confirmed that Trell is one we know of. It is. Quote Chaos I'm sorry Brandon, you might RAFO me. *written* For the metal in Bleeder, is it from a Shard we know? Brandon Sanderson Oh no… You drove all this way, that's what makes me. Eric comes and he's like-- Chaos You RAFO'd me at Words of Radiance-- Brandon Sanderson I know. Chaos --I asked you a question that was too much. Brandon Sanderson …you push, yeah… There you are you got your answer. You got me. *writes* Yes. Footnote: at that time we knew 9 Shards: Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment and Autonomysource Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Is the metal that Bleeder was associated with and had, is the Shard associated with that metal the same entity that's calling itself Trell? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. source It was a metal from on of the 9 shards listed in the Footnote at the time of the WoB. And the metal is from the eniity calling itself Trell. Process of elimination doesn't work if we can't exclude those unknowns. Edited September 10, 2018 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draginon Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calderis said: It is. It was a metal from on of the 9 shards listed in the Footnote at the time of the WoB. And the metal is from the eniity calling itself Trell. Process of elimination doesn't work if we can't exclude those unknowns. Thanks. It's got to be a pain to look through all the WOB just to find the relevant one. You know I just finished BOM and had posted my thoughts in the What Are You Reading thread and had a thought there on the red eyed men. If they're Kandra how did Harmony not realize there's some rogues and yet he knew instantly when Paalm went rogue. It almost makes you wonder if Trell can make Kandra and if so then that means Trell has access to hemalurgy and if Trell is Autonomy then things are worse than we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Draginon said: You know I just finished BOM and had posted my thoughts in the What Are You Reading thread and had a thought there on the red eyed men. If they're Kandra how did Harmony not realize there's some rogues and yet he knew instantly when Paalm went rogue. It almost makes you wonder if Trell can make Kandra and if so then that means Trell has access to hemalurgy and if Trell is Autonomy then things are worse than we think. Suit calls them "faceless immortals" and says the one probably took its body from some beggar on the street. They're never called Kandra, and I don't think they are. Personally I think they're Svrakiss from (briefly mentioned) Elantris, and they possess and animate corpses. Edited September 10, 2018 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draginon Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 hours ago, Calderis said: Suit calls them "faceless immortals" but and says the one probably took its body from some beggar on the street. Their never called Kandra, and I don't think they are. Personally I think they're Svrakiss from (briefly mentioned) Elantris, and they possess and animate corpses. That does bring up a good question since everyone calls the Kandra Faceless Immortal and what they'd assume if they met something similar, to their eyes, to a Kandra. If it is a Svrakiss, I don't know if they are meant to be a real thing or just a scapegoat for the Dereth religion so that's something to watch for in the sequels, then that would mean Autonomy has control of Sel by this point, or at least the Fjorden empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 hours ago, Calderis said: Suit calls them "faceless immortals" but and says the one probably took its body from some beggar on the street. Their never called Kandra, and I don't think they are. Personally I think they're Svrakiss from (briefly mentioned) Elantris, and they possess and animate corpses. That brings up an interesting question: under normal worldhopper Dor rules, any Dor-fueled magics wouldnt/couldnt work offworld without prohibitively complex shenanigans. Buuuuut, does that same restriction apply if you were talking about one Shard actively mimicking a Dor magic? Red Eyes of that being would indicate one Shard coopting another; Id assumed it was indicating a Kandra-equivalent that had been made by another shard (or at least made via Trellium), but what if the red glow was because it was a Selish entity being fueled by FauxDor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, Draginon said: then that would mean Autonomy has control of Sel by this point, or at least the Fjorden empire. I think that's a bit of a jump... All I really think it means is that Autonomy has been to Sel and at some point influenced Fjordell culture. Perhaps even unsuccessfully, as Svrakiss seem to be something hated as much or more than Elantrians were. @Quantus I honestly don't think they're For based at all. I think they're something that Autonomy uses, probably on various worlds, and I think the red eyes are just a sign of possession. Even in the case of a corpse. I mean, the Fused are red eyed as well and the moment their host dies they're essentially doing the same thing. It's pure speculation, sparked because this WoB got me thinking. Quote Questioner Miles Hundredlives, is he possessed by a svrakiss from Elantris? Brandon Sanderson *long pause* That's a RAFO, you are onto something... I wouldn't say possessed, but influenced by something is definitely a possibility. You are not 100% on. source And after digging around and building up the speculation I my head, I started to think that this is why Brandon has said he has to do the Elantris sequels before Era 3. Because Autonomy's involved in both directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draginon Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 @Calderis Having the Svrakiss involved makes sense for why Elantris 2 & 3 need to be done before Era 3. I kind of went to that jump because Svrakiss are more a Fjorden thing and not an Aonic or Rose Empire thing so she's done something with Sel which would put her World count at 2 (Taldain and Sel) with Scadrial being the third confirmed world she's going after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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