Silver's role in the Cosmere

[Ciridae]

This may be a little long, sorry guys. 

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Questioner

In Mistborn, silver doesn’t play a role. But then in Shadows for Silence, silver does play a role...

Brandon Sanderson

It does. I still wanted silver to be part of the Cosmere.

Questioner

But we’ll never see it in Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

It does not, as they understand currently, interact with Allomancy, with the three Metallurgic Arts. Silver does have a Cosmere role.

I just finished rereading Shadows again and it bothers me to no end that Silver has this hidden cosmeric significance and we have no clue what it really is. Brandon has rafo'd most things about silver, especially if it's invested on Threnody. I have done a little digging and compiled some WoBs and some ideas, but essentially I want to start a discussion on what silver's role is. 

Let me start with

What we currently know about Threnodite silver:

1. It hurts Shades. The exact effects are white sparks and driving the Shade back (when lightly touching it) and when stabbed, more sparks, a slight tugging on the knife (not unlike a Shardblade), and incapacitating the Shades. 

2. It heals withering. Silver dust is used to undo the withering caused by being touched by a Shade. (Let me point out that withering is extremely similar to what Shardblade wounds look like, this is important later.) Also, ingesting silver dust seems to have a more immediate and complete healing effect. 

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The dagger wouldn't be enough to save William Ann. Silence needed dust, silver dust, to force down her daughter's throat. 

3. It's used up both when touching a Shade and when healing witherings. Silence's knife is blackened in several spots after killing two Shades, while almost a whole pouch of silver dust is used up to heal a withered hand. Healing witherings seems to use up more silver than simply touching Shades. 

4. It does not automatically cause harm to all Cognitive Shadows/ Entities. Kelsier is able to touch Nazh's silver knife without a problem. I don't know if threnodite silver is special because of Ambition's warping of the planet, but I think it's safe to assume that the silver knife in Secret History is from Threnody. 

So Theory #1 is that silver in the form of a solid weapon, like a knife, is harmful to cognitive entities. Shades can be killed with it and the fact that Nazh caries it around while traveling in Shadesmar (and then gives it to Kelsier as a means of helping him) indicates to me that it's especially useful in the CR. 

For Theory #2 here's a quick refresher on Shades:

Spoiler

danimalod

I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones?

Brandon Sanderson

Shades are what we call "Cognitive shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies.

Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms.

(Here's the quick rundown of how I think Shades came to be.)

Clearly they are cognitive entities with a strong presence in the Physical realm. Much like a manifested Shardblade. Here's why the similarity between withering and Shardblade wounds is so important: if they work on the same principles (which I think is the simplest explanation for cognitive entities in the PR causing greying flesh and shriveled eyes in both cases), then that means that Shades damage the spiritual too. That would mean that threnodyte silver can heal or reverse spiritual damage. 

The problem with this is that we see it nowhere else in the Cosmere. Maybe it has to be threnodite silver. Maybe it only works on Threnodites. Maybe it only works on Threnody. But that's not very satisfying, is it? We're looking for a Cosmere-wide rule here, like red signifying co-opted or mixed investiture. 

This is where it gets very speculative. Unfounded and somewhat out-there Theory #3:

Spoiler

Zmann966 [PENDING REVIEW]

There is an expensive steel chain in the shops in Celebrant. Is there anything significant about that.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

*Hands over a RAFO card* That is such a big RAFO. Super-big RAFO.

 

Footnote: OB chapter 102, described as "a long thin silvery chain", not steel

Silvery, but not steel. Perhaps silver? The fact that Brandon gets so excited about this makes me think that the chain will have heavy plot implications. It's displayed in a weapons shop, in the CR, at a time and place where perhaps the biggest war involving cognitive entities has just kicked off. 

So in conclusion, silver does some weird stuff on Threnody, maybe involving healing the spiritual, and is maybe dangerous to cognitive entities, but not always. As you can see I'm a little stumped, but I hope I can start a bit of a discussion to see what all the smart heads around here can come up with.

Thanks for reading! 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Ciridae

[Ripheus23]

Wikipedia on silver:

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Silver is a chemical element with symbol Ag (from the Latin argentum, derived from the Proto-Indo-European h₂erǵ: "shiny" or "white") and atomic number 47. A soft, white, lustrous transition metal, it exhibits the highest electrical conductivity, thermal conductivity, and reflectivity of any metal.

Based on its role in superstitions, I am going to speculate that silver has become Invested generally due to the prevalence of "belief is reality" dynamics in the Cosmere. Or, Adonalsium himself Invested it in a special way, or some such thing. But the "belief is reality" dynamic allows it to be more important versus Cognitive Realm entities, so it's not (as such) an Allomantically viable metal.

[Draginon]

One thing to note on your description of silver dust, no one else has encountered Shades. Scadrians likely tested silver at some point but found 'no effect' so Threnodites are likely the only people to know the effects of silver

[Szmit]

A lot of assumptions will be there:

What if Silver is opposite to Alluminum? - Instead of beeing difficult to push Investiture into it it would be REALLY easy (like a hygroscopic material for investiture)...

This comes from the fact that burning alluminium would help you with withering. In that case withering might be some kind of soul - polution / virus created by unstable cognitive shadows, and spreads making other investiture infected. In that case alluminium would be like inpenetrable barrier, and silver would be like salt sucking up water.

It wouldn't hurt Kelsier since he isn't unstable, but for a Shade it would be like puting salt on wound - but a few magnitudes stronger. And eating powdered silver would be like putting a wet phone in a bag of dry rice and waiting for it to suck out the water.

It could also do wonky things when connected to alluminium. Mabye working like diode?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Szmit

[Wreith]

21 minutes ago, Szmit said:

This comes from the fact that burning alluminium would help you with withering

This is a fact? Do you have a source?

 

21 minutes ago, Szmit said:

In that case withering might be some kind of soul - polution / virus created by unstable cognitive shadows, and spreads making other investiture infected

I almost posted this as a theory, but I couldn't explain why treating someone with silver dust might still require amputation. I would have expected a complete healing.
I also have trouble reconciling the fact that it's described as forcing shades back rather than them recoiling from it. 

 

Additionally, I don't think Silver is without a use in allomancy. They just don't know what the use is. Someone correct me if an allomancer gets sick from burning silver somewhere

Quote

Questioner

In Mistborn, silver doesn’t play a role. But then in Shadows for Silence, silver does play a role...

Brandon Sanderson

It does. I still wanted silver to be part of the Cosmere.

Questioner

But we’ll never see it in Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

It does not, as they understand currently, interact with Allomancy, with the three Metallurgic Arts. Silver does have a Cosmere role.

source

I think silver has some sort of Spirit realm effect that Scadrians simple aren't aware of because Spiritual damage isn't really a thing there like it is on Threnody and Roshar.

To this end, I think it's possible we're missing at least 4 metals and that Gold and Electrum are categorized incorrectly.
Assuming there's not some WoB that there are only 16 metals.