Moash?

[Crazy Mraize]

Because people were asking whether Adolin would ever be accepted by any order of the Knights Radiant, having murdered Sadeas. Brandon said some orders would approve of what he did; he gave a smile and half-nod(?) when somebody suggested the Dustbringers.

 

Since Moash did something similar...

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Moogle]

It's debatable whether Moash's actions were similiar to Adolin's. I don't think we can draw a parallel here. Adolin killed Sadeas when provoked without plotting it and Moash not only conspired against Elhokar, but tried to kill him along with his friend and commander Kaladin.

 

So it wasn't being "provoked" when Elhokar killed Moash's parents? It seems to me like Moash just took longer to find Elhokar and try to kill him than Adolin did with Sadeas.

 

There are tons of differences between Moash vs. Elhokar and Adolin vs. Sadeas, but I'm not too sure this one counts. If anything, it makes Adolin more unlikely to be a Surgebinder than Moash because he can't control his temper. Snapping and killing people who anger you, is, from my understanding, not an admirable character trait. People who plan murders at least can be trusted to not be a danger to the general public (unless they're planning something that harms the public or whatever).

Edited April 21, 2014 by Moogle

[Shaggai]

So it wasn't being "provoked" when Elhokar killed Moash's parents? It seems to me like Moash just took longer to find Elhokar and try to kill him than Adolin did with Sadeas.

 

There are tons of differences between Moash vs. Elhokar and Adolin vs. Sadeas, but I'm not too sure this one counts. If anything, it makes Adolin more unlikely to be a Surgebinder than Moash because he can't control his temper. Snapping and killing people who anger you, is, from my understanding, not an admirable character trait. People who plan murders at least can be trusted to not be a danger to the general public (unless they're planning something that harms the public or whatever).

There's a difference between attempting to kill someone in cold blood in revenge for what they've done to you, and killing someone in hot blood when they've just said they're going to do everything they can to kill your father. It can be argued that Adolin was protecting, while Moash is just trying to get revenge.

[Guest]

There's a difference between attempting to kill someone in cold blood in revenge for what they've done to you, and killing someone in hot blood when they've just said they're going to do everything they can to kill your father. It can be argued that Adolin was protecting, while Moash is just trying to get revenge.

 

Moash tried for a premedited murder and when it started to collapse around him, he tried to kill his best friend. He does show remorse, but in the end, he ended blaming the wrong person. Politic is a complex thing and directly blaming the king for his parent's murder was childish. Kings may issue orders and such, but not on such a low level. Wanting to kill a king for this is a strong crime, for me. You don't go punishing the judge who passes a bad judgement.

 

Adolin had every cause to want to kill Sadeas. Sadeas betrayed them and let them to die at the Tower. Thousands of men died and that was after Adolin spent a whole book trying to warm his father about Sadeas. He restrains himself for weeks, waiting for the right opportunity. When he stumbles on Sadeas in Urithiru, his first instinct is not to kill him, but to walk away, quielty. Sadeas hears him and starts gloating. I can see why Adolin, being already quite overwhelmed by the recent days events, would lose his cool and attack Sadeas. He didn't plan to kill him and he was provoked. He didn't mastermind some grant assassination. He just lost it. Sadeas's boosting was too much for him to endure. Maybe if they have been back at the warcamps, maybe if the whole everyone is a Radiant had not unfolded, then maybe Adolin would not have lost his temper. As it is, I saw it as a young man watching his whole world crumbling appart around him who sort of lost his mind for a few minutes. I think he will regret his actions, greatly.

[Chrono she/her]

I'm not thinking that Moash is going to be a Surgebinder anytime soon. His rep sheet has too many problems on it. Frankly, it wasn't the whole "plot to kill Elhokar" thing that dismissed the idea, it's that he was willing to kill Kaladin to achieve his goal. I'm pretty sure the Knights Radiant, no matter what order, would frown on that sort of thing. You don't want people killing their comrades on the field just because they're getting in your way. Now, if they were actually doing something wrong, like that one KR in one of the Words of Radiance epigraphs, that's justified. Moash was not justified in nearly killing Kaladin.

 

Going by a legal sense, what Moash did would be a greater crime than what Adolin did. To me, Moash is worse, and for the reason above. I highly doubt that Adolin would try and kill Renarin, for example, if he suddenly showed up and demand that he stop. Even if Kaladin showed up and tried to interfere, Adolin could have gained back control of himself and stopped. Moash was past feeling at that point and didn't care. He showed remorse afterwards, but that doesn't really excuse it.

[Aleksiel]

So it wasn't being "provoked" when Elhokar killed Moash's parents? It seems to me like Moash just took longer to find Elhokar and try to kill him than Adolin did with Sadeas.

....If anything, it makes Adolin more unlikely to be a Surgebinder than Moash because he can't control his temper.....

 

I meant being provoked at the very moment it happened. I don't know if controlling one's temper has any value to KR, Willshapers suddenly sounded like the kind of people who act on whims. Also, I don't think Moash showed much control over his temper considering how he handled Kaladin, but I suppose it can be read either way.

 

So, my biggest argument against Moash being a surgebinder is what he did (or tried) to Kal. I think it was pretty clear he would have killed him if Kaladin didn't find the Words, thus his powers. And murdering your friend is not KR-ish. 

[Guest]

I'm not thinking that Moash is going to be a Surgebinder anytime soon. His rep sheet has too many problems on it. Frankly, it wasn't the whole "plot to kill Elhokar" thing that dismissed the idea, it's that he was willing to kill Kaladin to achieve his goal. I'm pretty sure the Knights Radiant, no matter what order, would frown on that sort of thing. You don't want people killing their comrades on the field just because they're getting in your way. Now, if they were actually doing something wrong, like that one KR in one of the Words of Radiance epigraphs, that's justified. Moash was not justified in nearly killing Kaladin.

 

Going by a legal sense, what Moash did would be a greater crime than what Adolin did. To me, Moash is worse, and for the reason above. I highly doubt that Adolin would try and kill Renarin, for example, if he suddenly showed up and demand that he stop. Even if Kaladin showed up and tried to interfere, Adolin could have gained back control of himself and stopped. Moash was past feeling at that point and didn't care. He showed remorse afterwards, but that doesn't really excuse it.

 

According to my country's laws, Moash would have been charged with premedited murder and would have been sentenced to prison for life. Adolin however would have been charged with simple murder and his lawyer would have plead he was mentally unstable at the time of the murder. He would have gotten a light sentence, probably a few years in a mental institution, especially if he shows remorse.