kurvyyn he/him Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 I'm new and am nervous about the spoiler policy, so I'll just mask the entire theory below to be safe. Don't click it if you haven't read Oathbringer please. Spoiler I'm listening to the audiobook as a second read through of Oathbringer, and during the vision where Dalinar communicates with Venli, Venli saves Timbre from being sucked up by Odium. But noticeably it stood out that Timbre was still essentially in physical form (and not like the other Lightspren or any other cognitive realm changes). So it got me to thinking, these visions aren't actually taking place in the cognitive realm, but it's also obviously not taking place in the physical realm (Dalinar used to act out the actions he was undertaking in the visions). So it MUST be taking place in the spiritual realm. This further makes sense because you can transcend space in the spiritual realm, which is how Dalinar is able to communicate with people all over the world. This realization excites me because I was under the impression we were never going to get a glimpse into the spiritual realm, Secret History made it seem like it was the after life and forever supposed to be mysterious (or at least that was my impression). But also, it makes sense that the visions are less of a memory and quite literally more of a way of peeking into the past. It also explains the fluidity with how the vision adapts instead of just being some kind of magic memory without preprogrammed responses magically. (Spiritual Realm transcends time _and_ space) So this maybe starts to sketch in what is possible in the spiritual realm. Odium taking Dalinar apart and making each piece feel pain, this is a shardic attack on Dalinar's spirit web. Odium can clearly manifest locations in the spirit realm, both to talk to Dalinar and Taravangian (a la The Construct from Matrix). Does this mean that Renarin's powers will be more broad than Dalinar's visions? Where Renarin can clearly see the future (predicts Everstorm) and also seems to being pulling answers out of the past (drawers in Urithiru, Urithiru is one big machine), does this imply a certain level of mastery of the Spiritual Realm then? And if Renarin can see into the Spiritual Realm, to what degree? Can he use it to talk to anyone in the world? Other shards? Manifest conference rooms full of people for councils? It's probably more obvious than the rest of these suppositions, it also occurs to me that Renarin is in the most likely position to contend with Moelach in the future and that maybe that fight occurs in the Spiritual Realm.
CalaCrisp88 Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 I'd never thought about this before, but I looked through a few wobs. It looks like you're not wrong, but not quite right. Apparently it's kinda being stretched across all three realms, not just in the spiritual. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332-jordancon-2018/#e9562 Quote Argent[PENDING REVIEW] How do visions in the cosmere work? And I'm thinking Realmatically. Brandon Sanderson[PENDING REVIEW] So almost always [it's] glimpsing into the Spiritual Realm. But you are often seeing it through the Cognitive, and so like a vision that... *interrupted for a picture request* So like the vision that Dalinar sees. What's going on is...being pulled, and kind of stretched a little bit through the Realms, into the Spiritual Realm. Where a Cognitive construct is adding a framework to seeds that are set in place. Argent[PENDING REVIEW] So that you can kind of comprehend the Spiritual? Brandon Sanderson[PENDING REVIEW] You can comprehend...and also there's a little bit of a life to it. Meaning it can respond to you to an extent. So imagine, it kind of works like an AI. Imagine there's some..you've got that power in the Spiritual Realm and you're adding a framework to it, that it is shining through, and that is giving you the vision. Complicated, I know. Spiritual Realm is supposed to be weird, and we aren't supposed to quite comprehend it, and that's why we've got the Cognitive framework there. source Also, the spiritual realm is not the beyond. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31-arcanum-unbounded-release-party/#e1729 Quote Ward When Harmony Ascends, he admits he doesn't have a good view of the Spiritual Realm. Does he develop a better one over time? And are there other Shards that already have a very good view of that? Brandon Sanderson Yes. But it is still something that is hard to grok, so to speak, in-canon, *inaudible*, hard to understand. But he has a much better understanding, and the other Shards, some of them have a very good understanding. The thing is, the difference between the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond is not something that is immediately obvious. Ward So, the Spiritual Realm is not the Beyond? Brandon Sanderson No, Spiritual Realm is not the Beyond. There are three Realms of existence. The Beyond, some would say... There are philosophers would would say, the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond are one, that the soul gets sucked into and joins the Investiture. That's the idea of the One. But, most people would say the Beyond is not... source
Storyspren Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 Yes. I like this very very much. The responsiveness of the visions is so high. It's like you're really there, except that... I THINK you can't influence the past. But if time really is meaningless in the spiritual realm, then it CAN'T be true that you can't influence the past. Many it's the smearing of the cognitive and physical INTO the spiritual that limits or even eliminates any influence on the past. But in any case, they aren't just visions. Maybe folks from the past can quite literally talk to the future even. But if that were true why wouldn't honor be doing it? So I think that can't be true. No wonky time stuff.
MountainKing Posted July 29, 2018 Posted July 29, 2018 Time is meaningless in the spiritual realm, in the spiritual realm right now there's multiple presents happening at once but there is only one present that has cognitive and physical aspects to go with it
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