[OB] Honor's Splintering, and the nature of the Final Desolation

[+robardin he/him]

Odium has "lost" every previous Desolation, and losing the Final Desolation would apparently be a Final Loss. Otherwise, why would he agree to a "contest of champions" instead of just trying again later? This offer of "a contest of champions" must be unique to the Final Desolation, as other aspects appear to be (such as the Everstorm).

BUT, if Odium thinks he can lose, why doesn't Honor think so, too? Why not use the visions to tell the Bondsmith more about the special upgrades he made to the Stormfather before dying, whatever it is that allows Dalinar to create the Perpendicularity and infuse spheres, and say, "whup Odium but good this time and it's OVER BABY!"

I think Honor's got a longer game in play, similar to Preservation in the original Mistborn trilogy. Various WoBs suggest that Honor isn't fully Splintered, though his Vessel in Tanavast is probably well and truly dead. I'm thinking that a "champion" for Honor would be very close to forming a new Vessel for the Shard, and that Odium hadn't expected that (from his exclamation at Thalyen Fields).

As for that Splintering, Odium wasn't able to do it until after Aharietam, yet wasn't able to start the Final Desolation until Taln broke it as well. If "90% broken" was good enough for him to go after Honor directly even if still bound to the Rosharan system, it would have happend 4,500 years ago, yeah? Or was the weakening a gradual thing, as implied by the Stormfather using that exact word?

If this Final Desolation is for all the marbles, what was the point of the earlier cycles of Desolations? It would seem the torture cycle was basically meant to do what it eventually did, to break the Heralds into forswearing the Oathpact, in order to avoid being sent back to Braize for torture. Which doesn't necessarily mean unbonding their Blade, as Nalan has reclaimed his, and Taln still had his at the gates of Kholinar.

Actually, what are "the marbles" at stake? It seems if Odium loses the Final Desolation, he loses for good; that's what "Final" means, right? So then what, he's stuck in the Rosharan system forever? Why would humanity want this? Would Odium also be forced to stop trying to destroy mankind? That's probably not even what he's really after, despite his title as the Father of Hatred, it's just a side effect that he couldn't care less about.

And when, in fact, was Honor Splintered? It was after the Recreance, and before the onset of Gavilar's visions that began just before he was assassinated. Could it even have been very recently before then? Maybe it's his Splintering that triggered the Final Desolation, and not some terminal weakening of the Oathpact (though the two may be related)?
 

[KalaDANG he/him]

I'm kind of curious about where the stuff about the final loss you're talking about, came from. Also, the contest of champions is something that could have been done previously. There probably just wasn't any need to because the Heralds and Radiants of humankind won EVERY TIME. Honor wouldn't ever allow Odium a 50/50 chance of victory when Honor was already favored to win. Honor only suggests it now because all of the odds are against the humans. There are no Heralds to lead them. The Radiants are starting from scratch. Odds are tipped towards Odium.

At this point in the series, I don't think Odium really thinks he CAN lose. Honor's last ditch plan for humankind is to convince Odium that he might lose, and scare him, so he'll be convinced that chance of victory in the contest is higher than his odds otherwise. I think Thaylen Fields is the first place we see Odium scared and confused. Let it continue. And I don't really know if Honor changed Stormfather too much. I mean, he gave the Stormfather more responsibility, and stormfather started being more of an individual rather than more of a force, but the reason Dalinar is able to do what he does is because of the combination of Honor's remnants, the Stormfather, and Dalinar's will.

I'd like to think that Honor has a plan, but I think the Oathpact continuing the way it was, was his Plan A, and the Contest of Champions is his final play. And it's confirmed in the WoB's that Honor is splintered. But Brandon has also confirmed in WoB that splintering isn't necessarily permanent.

I'm not sure what you mean with the whole Odium/Honor paragraph. I mean, Honor took a long time to die, for sure. But the splintering would have been more recent because he had to wait for Honor to die. 

You keep saying Final Loss, and Final Desolation, but this desolation is called the True Desolation, not the final one. This desolation isn't making all of the old ones not matter, it's the culmination of all of the other desolations. They were all leading up to this, when humanity is without leadership from Shards, or Heralds.

On when Honor was splintered though, it has to have been before Gavilar's death, but we don't really know the earliest he could have been splintered, since we don't have a death date. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by KalaDANG

[Scion of the Mists]

20 hours ago, robardin said:

Odium has "lost" every previous Desolation, and losing the Final Desolation would apparently be a Final Loss.

I don't think that we have any indication that this is the case.  

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Stormfather says if Odium loses the content of champions all he really loses is time. He's in no danger of being shattered, he just cannot leave. The proof that Odium has lost every previous desolation is that he's still in system, Cultivation isn't shattered, and humanity still lives. None of these things would be true if Odium won. He reigns but his rule is still contested.