Arcalim he/him Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I believe Shallan has spoken a powerful lie. She seems worse at lieing when she is around Adolin. Quote “You said that Jasnah was a Radiant too. Women, gaining Shardblades. It’s weird, but it’s not like we can ignore it. What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?” “Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.” Excerpt From Oathbringer 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Same reaction she always has when hiding. I agree. Pretty sure I've discussed this on discord. Don't remember who brought it up there, but I do remember how most people disagreed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic he/him Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Well if she does have it then you don't get plate from speaking oaths (since we saw her progress to Oath 4). Maybe Cultivation plays more of a role in granting shardplate and one need to progress on her side of the magic system? I know we think surgebinding is of honour, but maybe plate is a little extra granted by Cultivation. Edited July 12, 2018 by teknopathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wander89 he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 In the sense that she is portraying multiple versions of herself and not telling everyone then yes, she is a liar. She toyed with the thought of telling Adolin in OB when they fought Re-Shepir but decided against it because it would give up her identity which could hurt future goals. She seems to withhold information that she thinks will benefit her in the future which in cases like this does appear to be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 18 hours ago, teknopathetic said: Well if she does have it then you don't get plate from speaking oaths (since we saw her progress to Oath 4). Maybe Cultivation plays more of a role in granting shardplate and one need to progress on her side of the magic system? I know we think surgebinding is of honour, but maybe plate is a little extra granted by Cultivation. She might have gotten access to her plate at that time; but didn't summon it. I don't think there's necessarily a rule that they instantly have to manifest and use their new abilities when they speak an oath/truth. There's also a chance that Shallan had spoken her truths already, then rejected them which damaged the bond. Also, spren are of honor and Cultivation; surgebinding isn't exclusively Honor's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalaDANG he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Yeah there's no reason to assume that she doesn't have it just because she hasn't said anything about it or technically been seen using it. Most orders don't have a crazy demonstration of power like Kaladin or other Windrunners when they advance to new oaths. Brandon has said that the only reason that windrunners are so explosive when they advance is because they're so closely related to the bondsmiths. Some evidence pointing toward her actually having her shardplate though that we SEE is during the battle of Thaylen City. When she does the whole Shallan/Radiant/Veil thing and goes all crazy, Radiant is WEARING amber colored shardplate. I realize she's just an illusion, but I think it makes a lot of sense that she would manifest that way rather than without it. If Shallan DOES have shardplate, I'm betting that using it would be admitting and accepting a truth that she can't accept. Similar to her Patternblade. Radiant, because of who she is, would definitely be more willing to accept it and use the shardplate she's kind of a utilitarian. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, KalaDANG said: When she does the whole Shallan/Radiant/Veil thing and goes all crazy, Radiant is WEARING amber colored shardplate. Slight nitpick, it's Garnet. Stonewards have amber. And one thing to remember here (and no I'm not saying the plate was real, I'm not convinced in either direction) is that at the end of that battle, when Jasnah comes to Shallan, Radiant was the version of her that wasn't an illusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalaDANG he/him Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 THAT'S RIGHT I FORGOT ABOUT THAT!!! And my bad. Those details always get me. But that's interesting. She probably just lightweaved it when she went into Radiant's persona. It's still kind of interesting that she put the GARNET (Dang details) shardplate on the "illusion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) On 7/13/2018 at 6:54 AM, Journey Before Pancakes said: Also, spren are of honor and Cultivation; surgebinding isn't exclusively Honor's. True that the spren are a mixture, but the spren were never meant to grand Shardbladed (it was a hack). Speaking oaths and following oaths is of Honour, and oaths are how we see surgebinding progress. We haven't seen Cultivation used to progress quite yet. Edited July 16, 2018 by teknopathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 33 minutes ago, teknopathetic said: True that the spren are a mixture, but the spren were never meant to grand Shardbladed (it was a hack). Speaking oaths and following oaths is of Honour, and oaths are how we see surgebinding progress. We haven't seen Cultivation used to progress quite yet. The Honorblades were of Honor purely. The Oaths and the bond are both, and that seems clear in its structure. Oaths to regulate behavior from Honor, and progression through them as a growth of both character and power from Cultivation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic he/him Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Calderis said: The Honorblades were of Honor purely. The Oaths and the bond are both, and that seems clear in its structure. Oaths to regulate behavior from Honor, and progression through them as a growth of both character and power from Cultivation. True enough but that could still mean that cultivation of character bestows shardplate and that plate could happen potentially at any Oath Stage. It would not make narrative sens for Shallan to have found her Shardplate during WoR and having her hide it from the audience; it is far more likely that Shallan got her plate as a child (if she has her plate at all, which i doubt). Edited July 16, 2018 by teknopathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 17 hours ago, teknopathetic said: Speaking oaths and following oaths is of Honour, and oaths are how we see surgebinding progress. We haven't seen Cultivation used to progress quite yet. We’ve literally had a whole novella focused on the adventures of a girl and her cultivationspren. Besides Calderis’ great point about progression, the evidence points towards surgebinding being of both for many reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic he/him Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said: We’ve literally had a whole novella focused on the adventures of a girl and her cultivationspren. Besides Calderis’ great point about progression, the evidence points towards surgebinding being of both for many reasons. I am not saying that the Spren are only of Honour, but that the Oaths are of Honour. Perhaps you have ti cultivate truth, but i'm not so sure that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, teknopathetic said: I am not saying that the Spren are only of Honour, but that the Oaths are of Honour. Perhaps you have ti cultivate truth, but i'm not so sure that is the case. You were saying the _surges_ were of Honour, which is different than just the Oaths. The inspiration for the surges could even pre-date the shattering and be based on something natural about Roshar. It seems very unlikely the surgebinding is of Honour only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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