[OB] The Crownlands: A Misnomer?

[hypatia she/her]

There was something Gavilar said, what reminded me on Alexander the Great.

Sunmaker seems to have started like Gavilar himself - getting rid of the Hierocraty, uniting Alethkar and making himself the king.

All nice and fine, but Gavilar is critical about Sunmaker's next move to "unify" Roshar, because this leaves Alethkar behind without a king.

In this case Sunmaker would have to declare a regent, but then again many kings had lost their realm to the one they had given too much power.

With 10 men in charge the power would be devided until the king is back. Problem was - he never came back.

This can also be the origin of the "Highprince of.." -  something like ministerialis, each for a special part like war, information business and so on.

Another problem is we know nearly nothing about the Sunmaker family.

To have children you normally need a female/wife. What about brothers?

And how old was Sunmaker as he died? Were possible children at this time in an age to be successors?

Or was it like with Elhokar, who had a son, but too young to be king?

His sword Oathbringer should go to the oldest son and the next time we see it, it is in possession of a man from this ominous Crownland.

Edited April 6, 2018 by hypatia

[Jofwu he/him]

Has this particular quote come up in the conversation so far? I haven't seen it and I think it's a major clue as to what's going on here, even though I can't quite make sense of it.

This is Dalinar's flashback where Evi arrives with Adolin and Renarin (ch. 52)

Quote

He winced. “Well, you still should not have brought the children.” Dalinar slumped down into the cushions. “They are heirs to the princedom, assuming this plan of Gavilar’s with the Crownlands and his own throne works out. They need to remain safe in Kholinar.”

So Gavilar had some kind of "plan with the Crownlands" apparently?

We know that Gavilar was concerned by how the Sunmaker's children tore his kingdom apart, so it's not surprising that he would be concerned with how Elhokar would play along with his cousins. We also know that he wanted to set up a united Alethkar, not just "10 princedoms with one in charge".

Maybe Gavilar had plans to turn the Crownlands into a sort of... District of Columbia kind of situation? Almost like an 11th princedom for the king to directly rule over (though probably different in some ways). Some way to set apart the King from the Kholin Princedom in a more significant way. Perhaps Gavilar simply died before he was able to complete these plans, leaving Elhokar with a giant chunk of land... but one that simply wasn't developed enough to require significant attention.

Doesn't feel like a perfect explanation... Elhokar could have devoted time to seeing that plan through instead of meddling with Dalinar's land. Maybe someone else has a better thought? Either way, I think there's something important buried in that quote.

[Angsos]

Don't forget, almost until the George R.R. Martin scene in Kholinar Elhokar was a bad king so could've knocked any plans Gavilar had off the rails

[hypatia she/her]

@Jofwu

Thank you for your reminder to read again when in doubt - the crownland problem seems much more worth of speculations.

My findings:

Page 374 / Chapter 36 Hero

Tanalan jun. is back, Gavilars reaction:

"He's a descendant of the old REGIME. (...)  The whole city is going into rebellion, the entire REGION.

If we don't act, the whole CROWNLAND could break off.

 

Chapter 26/ Blackthorm Unleashed

Page 264

"Dalinar summoned Oathbringer, the sword of a fallen king...."

Now I remember wondering about the wording  - why should Dalinar think about the Sunmaker as a "fallen king"?

Why not "dead king" or "Sunmaker"?

[Angsos]

Maybe the 10 warlords, regents, whatever after succession wars(like Alexander the Great) had come to a balance and the crownlands was left over because no one wanted to start the wars again. Conversely, the crownland guy could have been like Alexander's general Ptolomy, content with Egypt and the land around.

Hypatia, I think that just means Tanalon is the son of the guy dalinar killed the first time and that's also what the fallen king reference means.

[hypatia she/her]

@Angsos

The first one was just because it isn't clear wether Rathalas was a part of Kholin or the Crownlands. With this I tend to Crownlands.

All of this is possibly connected with Sadees, the Sunmaker.

He conquered the Hierocracy and unified Alethkar - he shouldn't have had problems as Gavilar had with Highprinces - there weren't none.

And we don't know how he succeded - perhaps this region was the first on his side and he granted them indepedency? Perhaps there even is an oath involved.

The Princedom Kholin was always in a position to attack the Crownlands, but nothing had happened until Gavilar, who set out to become king - he wasn't interested in the power-balance - and wasn't orginally supposed to be Highprince - he didn't have any bounderies.

What really astonished me is why Gavilar waited 13 years after Tanalan jun. was back to send Dalinar after him.

 

Like I wrote above I also was reminded of Alexander the Great, leaving his kingdom to conquer the world.

The Highprinces as the Diadochi, Gavilar in the end as Kassander.

But who has taken up the role of Alexander's son? Too young to be king, more or less the prisoner of Kassander?

After the three wars the legitimate heir was a part of the peace because he should be the king coming of age, whereas Kassander had interpreted this as an order to kill him and his mother.

Edited April 8, 2018 by hypatia