PudgyNinja Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I actually meant to include this, but Syl becoming a group of windswept leaves may mean that splitting herself isn't necessarily a problem. And Physicalness may increase as more oaths are said. That's why I'm not discounting the spren theory. Syl didn't split into windspren. Kaladin attracted a group of windspren and mistook one of them for Syl momentarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomR Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Syl didn't split into windspren. Kaladin attracted a group of windspren and mistook one of them for Syl momentarily. Not what I meant. Syl often turns into a group of windswept leave, as in this passage: “You disagree?” Syl asked, moving over toward him as a cluster of fluttering leaves. It was disconcerting to hear her voice coming from such shapes. She's plural there. I'm not sure if that means she can Shardplate and Shardblade at the same time not, I can see an argument for the group of leaves being one thing. However, it's why I don't rule out the spren theory completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardochigbata Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Shardplate was meant for fighting voidbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybera Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) When Syl became a sharblade i immediately thought that Kal will probably need to say the next oaths before she can become an armor for Kal as well. Since the armor is of her it would not interfere with his abilities as a totally unrelated armor would interfere with Szeth's abilities. Edited March 11, 2014 by cybera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaconis Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 When Syl became a sharblade i immediately thought that Kal will probably need to say the next oaths before she can become an armor for Kal as well. Since the armor is of her it would not interfere with his abilities as a totally unrelated armor would interfere with Szeth's abilities. I agree. Somewhere in WoR (don't have book with me) it's mentioned that with each oath, the spren is brought more fully into the physical. I think Syl can't become Plate yet because she can't affect the physical world enough yet to be both Plate and Blade. I'm not sure how to explain the Plate not screaming for bonded people though. Perhaps as someone said above, it's because you don't bond Plate the same way you do a Blade, with no ability to summon and dismiss Plate. This just really makes me wonder what the hell could have caused the Recreance. If the bonded spren is really both the Plate and Blade, what could have possibly made the Knights knowingly trap their bonded spren, someone they've shared minds and emotions with, who can feel each other's pain. The only way I can see Kaladin doing that is if Syl agreed/asked for it, and even then I'm not sure he'd do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin in White Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Wor page 1044 "So they're all spren," he said. "Shardblades." syl grew solemn. "Dead spren," kaladin added. "Dead," syl agreed. "Then they live again a little when aomeone summons them, syncing a heartbeat to their essence." because you dont bond a shardplate the spren inside isnot revived so there wont be screaming from the plate only the weapon. at least that is how I read it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I agree. Somewhere in WoR (don't have book with me) it's mentioned that with each oath, the spren is brought more fully into the physical. I think Syl can't become Plate yet because she can't affect the physical world enough yet to be both Plate and Blade. I'm not sure how to explain the Plate not screaming for bonded people though. Perhaps as someone said above, it's because you don't bond Plate the same way you do a Blade, with no ability to summon and dismiss Plate. This just really makes me wonder what the hell could have caused the Recreance. If the bonded spren is really both the Plate and Blade, what could have possibly made the Knights knowingly trap their bonded spren, someone they've shared minds and emotions with, who can feel each other's pain. The only way I can see Kaladin doing that is if Syl agreed/asked for it, and even then I'm not sure he'd do it. So here's a better question then. If Blades and Plate are effectively the same material, why does Plate need a constant infusion of Stormlight to function whereas Blades will do their thing with no further Investiture spent? Why do gemstones allow people to mimic some aspect of the nahel bond, specifically the summoning/dismissal of a Blade, yet those same gemstones function pretty much as batteries for Plate? Two things from the same source should act more similar than Plate and Blades tend to, I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rhaiynebow Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I linked to my theory on Shardplate in my original post on page 1 of this thread, but I have to say that I agree with you Vortaan. I don't think they come from the same place necessarily. I DO think both are from a spren bond somehow, but multiple spren. I originally posted my thoughts on this in the Shallon Relationship thread but it could really apply here too. I think that Shallan and Kal have a close relationship and hit it off so well because they will be bonding each others spren, or maybe a common third spren in the future. I know that currently Syl/Pattern don't get along, but I think that will/needs to change. And I could have SWORN that I read something somewhere in this book that lead me to believe that the current assumption about humans betraying their spren was wrong and that it was actually the SPREN that betrayed the HUMANS. Or possibly they betrayed one another (Spren Wars...new show airing soon LOL) which ultimately caused the KR to fall because blade/plate didn't work anymore due to spren civil war. I'll see if I can find the passages in the book that support that. If I can't...well then I just might prove myself mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I linked to my theory on Shardplate in my original post on page 1 of this thread, but I have to say that I agree with you Vortaan. I don't think they come from the same place necessarily. I DO think both are from a spren bond somehow, but multiple spren. I originally posted my thoughts on this in the Shallon Relationship thread but it could really apply here too. I think that Shallan and Kal have a close relationship and hit it off so well because they will be bonding each others spren, or maybe a common third spren in the future. I know that currently Syl/Pattern don't get along, but I think that will/needs to change. And I could have SWORN that I read something somewhere in this book that lead me to believe that the current assumption about humans betraying their spren was wrong and that it was actually the SPREN that betrayed the HUMANS. Or possibly they betrayed one another (Spren Wars...new show airing soon LOL) which ultimately caused the KR to fall because blade/plate didn't work anymore due to spren civil war. I'll see if I can find the passages in the book that support that. If I can't...well then I just might prove myself mad I believe the quote you are thinking of is the spren betraying the Listeners for humans. As for spren forming Shardplate, it still hits that wall. Why do they need constant Stormlight, why do gemstones act so differently in each? In my mind the fact that you can even somewhat mimic Plate with half-Shards indicates that they are more closely related to fabrials than Shardblades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rhaiynebow Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I bet that is the quote I'm thinking of Vortaan. I there were references made in other threads to Dalinar's visions where plate (specifically I think it was a helm) disappeared from a KR. I think it was the village/farmhouse scene from TWoK. That seems very shardblade like to me. Although...I know there was reference in WoR to them having to "regrow" their shattered plate pieces and it taking a long time. I really do like that theory too. I just don't see them being a fabrial, although we obviously know they had pretty advanced fabrial skills proven by the Oathgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djerf Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 “Somehow, you are partly in the Cognitive Realm,” “It is the only answer I can find to why you can touch spren. And you can metabolize food directly into Stormlight.” From the Lift interlude. As I read this Wyndle is not fascinated by the fact that Lift can make her own Stormlight but by the fact that she can metabolize food directly into Stormlight. This implies that it's not unheard of humans generating Stormlight. I suggest that fully oath-ed KR are able to slowly generate Stormlight either by siphoning it through the Nahel bond or by a mechanism similar to what Lift is using. If this is true, the Shardplate might be connected to this ability. Let's assume that Shardplate is crystallized Stormlight, then the primary function of the plate would not be protection but as a storage for storm light, once the crystallized structure is formed the Knight could then supercharge it, so to speak, and this is the glow we have witnessed in Dalinar's visions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobobagins Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Shardplate... What is it goooood for- Absolutely NOOOOOOOTHING----- Sing it with me now!!!!! Edited March 12, 2014 by arcmourn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PudgyNinja Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 One possible argument that shardplate comes from the nahel bond: The Stormfather tells Dalinar that he will not become a simple sword for him and that he will be a Radiant without Shards. Shards, plural. it's small, but it's something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rhaiynebow Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 LOL arcmourn! You know, I was thinking more about all of the growth/Cultivation theories out there about shardplate and the more I think about them, I feel like there is something significant there. We know that shardplate is grown based on comments that Adolin makes (or thinks) during the final Parshendi battle. Well, what if the plate is connected to the Parshendi somehow? They are able to grow plate and they also bond with spren. There are so many possibilities! Plus there's a whole side of things we still know nothing/little about which is spren politics. Also, the Parshendi/spren relationship. I'm going to have to do a reread now and really pay attention to topics on these forums and highlight passages! Back to this topics original question...I agree with most others that the plate is there to help protect them from injury to prevent excess stormlight use, and in particular to protect from voidbringer attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 The one thing that shard plate really puts me in mind of is the carapace armour that Parshendi grow themselves in war form. I think it is something similar, and Parshendi are more similar to spren than humans are- they can see them and the likes of Rock, part Parshendi, can see them. Thus I think that shard plate is not a separate spren or a form of the Nahel bond spren as per such, but rather something that can be grown from such a spren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galendo Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 One of the main arguments against Plate being fabrials or being created by a particular order of Radiant is the fact that there are apparently a very similar number of Blades and Plates in the world, which would be very unlikely to happen by chance if the two weren't connected. Most shardbearers we've seen have both Blade and Plate, and a few have one but not the other (e.g., Sadeas in WoK and Dalinar in WoR), but it's not like there are a bunch of people with Plate and not Blade or vice-versa. If there were, say, twice as many of one as the other, I'm pretty sure the imbalance would have been mentioned in the books. I adhere to the theory that Shardplate is created of spren, but not radiant-spren. When Kaladin flies through the sky, he attracts a bunch of windspren, with whom Syl obviously shares an affinity. We also know from the interlude with the scholars in WoK that spren can be locked into form. The theory is that the radiant spren somehow locks the non-radiant spren into Plate. This explains the similar numbers of Blade and Plate, explains why Radiants don't hear scream from Shardplate, explains why Plate can resist Blades, and fits in well with what we know of the magic systems of Roshar. As for the uses of Plate: it makes you stronger, it protects you from one-hit-kills, it shrugs off "normal" attacks, and it takes a lot less Stormlight to maintain Plate than it would to heal all the wounds you'd have if you weren't wearing Plate. Seems like pretty useful stuff, even for the Knights Radiant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Another thing about Shardplate. I believe Radiants grow it, just like warform Listeners grow armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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