Slivers of Odium (almost certainly spoilers and wild speculation)

[ArthurB he/him]

I've seen in a few other threads some suggestions that Adolin might be succumbing to the influence of Odium. It has been established that the Thrill is artificial, though the source is as yet unconfirmed (psst, it's Odium). We know that someone must be broken in some way in order for investiture to take hold and finally we know that surgebinders are Slivers of Honor, Cultivation or both (honorblades not withstanding).

Where are Odium's Slivers? Was Kaladin's extended period of darkness entirely his own doing? It seems to me that that sort of deep-seeded hatred and loss would be just the sort of fertile ground in which Odium might flourish. Adolin's murder of Sadeas might have been an act of passion, but what about his actions immediately afterword? Some have suggested that the Skybreakers might appreciate his action as some form of twisted justice, but the Skybreakers wouldn't have tried to hide the act.

I don't think that the Everstorm and the unmade are the worst threats to Roshar. I think that Odium is not only looking for his champion but a sort of anti-KR faction and he is going to target Slivers of Honor and Cultivation. I think he might have been trying to break Kaladin and, having failed in that, is now trying to twist Adolin.

Thoughts? Feelings? Annoying facts that will shatter my beautiful (wild) speculations? It's my first time, but no need to be gentle

[Argent he/him]

Surgebinders are not Slivers, let's clear that up. For somebody to be a Sliver they need to:

• be alive (e.g. Seons from Elantris can't be Slivers)
• have held most of a Shard's power at some point of time
• have lost this power, one way or another (which leaves them "deflated" and has some weird effects on their sDNA, as per WoB)

I don't think this distinction seriously affects your ideas, but I wanted to clear it up.

[ArthurB he/him]

Surgebinders are not Slivers, let's clear that up. For somebody to be a Sliver they need to:

• be alive (e.g. Seons from Elantris can't be Slivers)
• have held most of a Shard's power at some point of time
• have lost this power, one way or another (which leaves them "deflated" and has some weird effects on their sDNA, as per WoB)

I don't think this distinction seriously affects your ideas, but I wanted to clear it up.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up! So they might be called Invested generically? Allomancers, Elantrians, Returned, etc.

[Argent he/him]

I've been wondering about a proper name for them. We've all been using "magic users" but that's not a very... cosmere term. I don't know.

[LightReader she/her]

Well, as Seon's and spren and such are splinters... Surgebinders at least could maybe be thought of as splinter-holders... but it doesn't quite translate over to all the other magic types.  I suppose we could call all the magic users in the cosmere Investors, but that makes it sound like we're talking about share holders in a company. 

[Argent he/him]

Investors is the best term I had come up with as well. We could maybe use Invester, as it is not a real word...

[Seerow]

Investors is the best term I had come up with as well. We could maybe use Invester, as it is not a real word...

 

I'd call them "The Invested" as a group, but an individual being an Invester/Investor doesn't sound right.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Invested seems much more fitting to me.

[ArthurB he/him]

Since this thread already warns of wild speculations, I'm going to dump a couple more in here that aren't ripe enough yet for their own thread.

 

Starspren:

 It's hard to gauge how the great majority of intelligences on Roshar view the stars and thus how they might manifest in Shadesmar. Perhaps Starspren aren't what we think. We know that there is at least one other planet in the Roshar system, there seem to be strong indications that Roshar is not the world that its human inabitants originated on. Perhaps those 'spren' are in fact satellites of some sort? Some remnant of a more technoligically advanced era? I have absolutely no evidence to support this and don't think that it is at all important to current events on Roshar, but it was kicking around in my head, so there it is.

 

If wishes were fishes:

 How closely bound are highspren to the minds from which they sprang? If enough people had a shift in their cognition of one thing or another, would that change the form/nature of whatever highspren happened to derive from that perception? For that matter, are Odium's spren in some way bounded by the same interaction of intelligence and the cognitive realm that the rest of the spren seem to be?

[skaa he/him]

I think that "Invested" or even "Investee" are valid terms for sentient creatures with Innate Investiture, but there are problems with them. For one, "Invested" is already used for non-sentient things with Investiture, i.e. "Invested objects", so there will be ambiguity. We need a distinct term for sentient recipients of Innate Investiture.

Another problem is the use of "the Invested" as a collective term in a fantasy story, where cool-sounding terms are preferred. To me, being called an Invested just doesn't seem impressive enough.

Given that "investiture" can also mean "giving" or "bestowal", I propose the term "Gifted" for people with Innate Investiture. The term implies sentience because you can only offer gifts to thinking beings, so it fits.

[Chlehrma]

I am pretty certain that the unmade are slivers of odium. There was a quote at the start of one of the chapters that strongly alludes to this.

[ArthurB he/him]

I am pretty certain that the unmade are slivers of odium. There was a quote at the start of one of the chapters that strongly alludes to this.

 

That's true, and I had considered that, but I don't think that Odium would leave the humans untapped if he thought that he could invest and control them. Mainly I was leaning towards this because Kaladin's extended period of darkness seemed sort of artificial. If I were a dark god bent on destruction and dispair I would certainly try to tap into that particular broken soul, especially considering his proven talents thus far. Also Adolin's actions surrounding his murder of Sadeas seemed distinctly out of character. Again, the stabbing him in a fit of passion I can easily attribute to Adolin. The act of hiding it, though, that seemed out of character. However, I am not a dark god bent on destruction and dispair. At least, not after I've had my coffee...

[ricree]

My number one point of distrust lies in the Diagram. They make a big point at the way his intelligence at that point is such an outlier that they are never likely to see anywhere near its level again. Or just as likely, such an outlier that it has never happened at all.

I'm thinking that his condition has somehow left him vulnerable to outside influence, in the same manner as a stormform listener. The every other letter bits even remind me of her "screaming" while in that form.

The big question is whether the influence is Odium or Cultivation. But since it instructs them to kill Dalinar only if he turns away from the path of a bloodthirsty warlord, and calls for him to sow destruction far and wide in the name of the greater good, I'm betting that the influence isn't benign.

Edited March 9, 2014 by ricree