+Aletus he/him Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I mentioned this in the ANdolin/Kaladin thread, and it has stuck in my mind incredibly, so in order to not derail the thread, what do you all think of this: Given that Kaladin nearly killed Syl, causing her to revert and or return to primitive whatnot, by breaking his oaths, in such a relatively simple way, what would happen if Dalinar killed his Spren in such a way, at least causing him to go away for a while. Does the almightyspren follow the same rules as his 'children'? or is he less of a spren, because they are the materialization of thought, whereas maybe he could be seen as more defined, in the shard/splinter realm, and thus not bound by spren rules. It's kind of really confusing. What would happen if Syl's father wasn't around? Would highstorms still blow? would Syl still be syl? Would Odium /default_win? Could Dalinar find his way again like Kal? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 He's described as surviving the Recreance. That suggests he was bound at that time, so perhaps he's just harder to kill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) The Stormfather lives in Shadesmar. I strongly believe he would not die, since it's only when in the Physical that spren become mindless and are vulnerable to death-by-oath-abandonment. Edited March 5, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I don't know. If it didn't matter to him, why would he try to resist so hard? Also didn't one of the epigraphs say that there were only 3 bondsmiths due to their unique spren requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlehrma Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 My guess is that their spren would be splinters. Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and Dawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaokeang she/her Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Stormfather is just a splinter of Honor just like most sentient spren. He is just more heavily invested than other spren. So we have 2 other Bondsmiths to go, Nightwatcher for one and the other spren Cusicesh maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Dalinar's bond to Stormfather is different, in a way that allows Stormfather not to die (like he said, he would not be bound in a way to kill him). Like Moogle said, Stormfather makes no transition to the physical => he would not "die" there, Dalinar would not have a physical Blade, etc. It's curious though how Shallan had the Blade before Pattern transitioned to the physical... Interesting idea about Cusicesh and Nightwatcher... Nightwatcher might be the equivalent Cultivation spren - it's still "intelligent" like Stormfather was... and she/it's still assigned things (boons/curses), while Cusicesh does not look like it's doing anything... - maybe Cusicesh was in the physical and lost its mind? Or maybe Cusicesh is something else Edited March 6, 2014 by marianmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Aletus he/him Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Dalinar's bond to Stormfather is different, in a way that allows Stormfather not to die (like he said, he would not be bound in a way to kill him). Like Moogle said, Stormfather makes no transition to the physical => he would not "die" there, Dalinar would not have a physical Blade, etc. It's curious though how Shallan had the Blade before Pattern transitioned to the physical... Interesting idea about Cusicesh and Nightwatcher... Nightwatcher might be the equivalent Cultivation spren - it's still "intelligent" like Stormfather was... and she/it's still assigned things (boons/curses), while Cusicesh does not look like it's doing anything... - maybe Cusicesh was in the physical and lost its mind? Or maybe Cusicesh is something else Yes it is. We knew so little about the true benefits to the bond in WotK, but even now - mysteries are abound. It has something to do with the words, not just the oaths like in Kaladin's situation - as we know the first words are the important ones for her order - pattern was clearly physical at that point, and apparently maybe more 'aware' then when she rediscovered him with Jasnah I think it has something to do with her forgetting, or blocking it out in her mind, kind of like killing him, so to speak, as when the original radiants abandoned their blades during the recreance. She found her lies again, though, and he came back. Maybe he wasn't completely dead, just blocked out - so to speak. It would have been nice to know if it took the requisite ten heartbeats prior to all of her gained knowledge working with Jasnah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 It would have been nice to know if it took the requisite ten heartbeats prior to all of her gained knowledge working with Jasnah. As someone pointed out elsewhere, during Shallan's confrontation with Tyn, Shallan dimly remembers that she doesn't actually need ten heartbeats to summon her sword. And then she convinces herself that she actually does need that amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Aletus he/him Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Right, and Kaladin/Syl elaborate on that - it doesn't take ten heartbeats as long as she is 'here with' him - so perhaps if he sent her to Kholinar or some junk, it would - to sort of pull her through Shadesmar or something. So Shallan wouldn't need ten now, when pattern is alive, physical, sentient, whatever. I think back then - things were different. Or I wonder if Syl meant....I dunno. because it is said that the ten heartbeats is to sync and revive the dead spren in an ancient shardblade. Edited March 6, 2014 by Blackwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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