Questions about Hemalurgy

[Krios]

So Im thinking about buying a leather bound copy of mistborn and you can ask a question, with that. I am mainly interested in heamlurgy, because it seems to be the most versatile metallic art.

I want to make sure, that I dont ask somethig that has already been answered. So I got some questions for the more knowledgable of you.

1. What would happen, if you use a spike made from yourself on yourself. When you have been harvested you are similiar to a drap, but worse. And a part of your power is always lost due to the law of heamlurgic decay.

2. Can you steal all or multiple allomantic or feruchemical powers using an atium spike? Since atium steals all abilities.

3. Could you steal multiple attributes with multiple spikes from the same mistborn / feruchemist at the same time? Possibly using some kind of torture contraption.

4. Could you steal several attributes through the same bindpoint? Like making some kind of coiled spike, that is infact several different spikes. Kind of like the bonfire swords in Dark Souls just from different metals.

5. I read a WoB, that reforging a hemalurgic spike would severly decrease its power. So could you weld several spikes together submerged in blood ( You can weld underwater ), that you premade to fit together? Kind of to get around the 2-spikes-and-Harmony-can-control-you-thing.

Hopefully this isnt to annoying and please help me. Which one do you think I should ask?

Thanks

Krios

[Yata he/him]

13 minutes ago, Krios said:

1. What would happen, if you use a spike made from yourself on yourself. When you have been harvested you are similiar to a drap, but worse. And a part of your power is always lost due to the law of heamlurgic decay.

Assuming you don't die (the most common result of Hemalurgy) you will be simply a bit less of yourself and with the Hemalurgy fault too.

16 minutes ago, Krios said:

2. Can you steal all or multiple allomantic or feruchemical powers using an atium spike? Since atium steals all abilities.

You could steal everything you want with an Atium Spike but the Spike could keep just one thing at time (like the others metals) as far as we know

17 minutes ago, Krios said:

3. Could you steal multiple attributes with multiple spikes from the same mistborn / feruchemist at the same time? Possibly using some kind of torture contraption.

In theory is possible, if the Mistborn doesn't die when you performe the first Hemalurgy on him. But I really doubt you could do this more than one time (so two Spikes if you are luck)

18 minutes ago, Krios said:

4. Could you steal several attributes through the same bindpoint? Like making some kind of coiled spike, that is infact several different spikes. Kind of like the bonfire swords in Dark Souls just from different metals.

I honestly don't know, as you need to put intent to use Hemalurgy I don't even know if you could performe two Hemalurgy together (but this is not a problem as you need only a collegue), mostly as the Soul is ripped the guy mostly die and if he doesn't we don't know if the Soul is in condition to be properly spiked again. This is true also for the previous question.

21 minutes ago, Krios said:

5. I read a WoB, that reforging a hemalurgic spike would severly decrease its power. So could you weld several spikes together submerged in blood ( You can weld underwater ), that you premade to fit together? Kind of to get around the 2-spikes-and-Harmony-can-control-you-thing.

First of all, if you are human, you could tollerate until 3 Spikes without be opened to direct control. The fourth will allow external forces to control you.

Returning to your question, are you asking if you could fuse together Spikes to stack charge right ? Of course if they are made of different metals you could not but also if they are made of the same metal I believe you could not forge them together if they were not originally made by the same "donor" as the two Identity could mess with them.

 

I hope my questions are helpful, I feel I could possibly mistake some of your questions. If this is the case, made me notice and I will try to answer them properly

 

[Krios]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

In theory is possible, if the Mistborn doesn't die when you performe the first Hemalurgy on him. But I really doubt you could do this more than one time (so two Spikes if you are luck)

I honestly don't know, as you need to put intent to use Hemalurgy I don't even know if you could performe two Hemalurgy together (but this is not a problem as you need only a collegue), mostly as the Soul is ripped the guy mostly die and if he doesn't we don't know if the Soul is in condition to be properly spiked again. This is true also for the previous question.

First of all, if you are human, you could tollerate until 3 Spikes without be opened to direct control. The fourth will allow external forces to control you.

Returning to your question, are you asking if you could fuse together Spikes to stack charge right ? Of course if they are made of different metals you could not but also if they are made of the same metal I believe you could not forge them together if they were not originally made by the same "donor" as the two Identity could mess with them.

 

I hope my questions are helpful, I feel I could possibly mistake some of your questions. If this is the case, made me notice and I will try to answer them properly

 

Okay, first of thank you very much for your answers, but I think I need to clarify some of my questions. You answered 1 and 2 very well.

My question 3 (the one with the contraption) referred to using a iron maiden contraption. Like you build a machine that would put all the different metal spikes through the right bindpoint at the exact same time. Like pulling a lever and then they all pierce through your victim. It should be possible to have the intent to do that, right? I mean the intent to creat one spike is: "I want to create a hemalurgic spike." So why not "I want to create 16 hemalurgic spikes."

My question 4 should have come with this picture.

Like this could be to different spikes, if the coils are made from to different metals. One pewter, one steel for example. Assuming you would push this through the right point with the right intent, would you create 2 spikes or just be able to steal one attribute.

Question 5 is basically, if you weld to spikes together would they count as one spike or several spikes.

Honestly I am trying to figure out how Kelsier became a fullborn through hemalurgy. My start point is that they used Spooks mistborn powers and harvested them at the end of his life as I dont think Harmony would just allow him to harvest random metalborns. So Im trying to figure out how they did that. Granted Kelsier could have 32 spikes, but I dont think he would expose himself to being controlled by a shard.

[Yata he/him]

2 hours ago, Krios said:

My question 3 (the one with the contraption) referred to using a iron maiden contraption. Like you build a machine that would put all the different metal spikes through the right bindpoint at the exact same time. Like pulling a lever and then they all pierce through your victim. It should be possible to have the intent to do that, right? I mean the intent to creat one spike is: "I want to create a hemalurgic spike." So why not "I want to create 16 hemalurgic spikes."

Yeah I understood your point but still I believe that multiple Hemalurgy will have an extremelly high chance to fail, Hemalurgy rips the soul and it's not only a matter of "power extraction" the people loses much more than that (or the one who survive to Hemalurgy will be mostly normal people). Trying to rip multiple stuff at the same time, you risk to have neither of the Spikes fully charged of what he needs.

The Question 4 is mostly the same scenario but it has also the added difficult task of hitting the right bindpoint with each metal and right (the bindpoint are really tiny).

2 hours ago, Krios said:

Question 5 is basically, if you weld to spikes together would they count as one spike or several spikes.

If you simply hold them together they will be a bunch of Spikes not a single one and by the way I believe it isn't even possible to insert more than a Spike in the same bindpoint for both pratical and spiritual reasons.

2 hours ago, Krios said:

Honestly I am trying to figure out how Kelsier became a fullborn through hemalurgy. My start point is that they used Spooks mistborn powers and harvested them at the end of his life as I dont think Harmony would just allow him to harvest random metalborns. So Im trying to figure out how they did that. Granted Kelsier could have 32 spikes, but I dont think he would expose himself to being controlled by a shard.

First of all, we don't even know if Kelsier is a Fullborn. The Band could be made by someone else under Kelsier's direction.

By the way, we know that Kelsier & Spook did exactly what you excluded. They harvested powers from a bunch of metalborn to progress in their research.

Lastly we don't know if Kelsier retained his Mistborn's Status once he returned physical, if this is the case. He alone will have already 16+ powers. Of course this doesn't change that 16 Spikes will still be too much.

Personally, I believe Kelsier has a couple of Spikes with strategic powers, nothing more and he is not by himself a Fullborn without using Medallion-Tech

[Krios]

Thanks very much, I think I will go either with question 3 or 4. Did check the end of Mistborn: Secret History again and it seems they used Inquisitor spikes, so thats probably cool with Harmony. 

[Yata he/him]

34 minutes ago, Krios said:

Thanks very much, I think I will go either with question 3 or 4. Did check the end of Mistborn: Secret History again and it seems they used Inquisitor spikes, so thats probably cool with Harmony. 

Yeah but Inquisitors' Spikes doesn't contain many Feruchemical Powers and neither the new Metals' Allomantic powers 

[Aerlion]

17 hours ago, Krios said:

3. Could you steal multiple attributes with multiple spikes from the same mistborn / feruchemist at the same time? Possibly using some kind of torture contraption.

I asked a similar question for my signed copy "Is it possible to use Hemalurgic spikes to steal multiple attributes from the same person?" so I would recommend another question

My second question for Brandon (I bought both books) was "Is it possible to create a Hemalurgic spike with several stolen attributes?" so that's also a similiar question to yours.

Lastly, I'm new here (created the account for this post) so I'm wondering, is there any place to post what questions I've asked to avoid duplicates?

[Krios]

@Aerlion I dont think, that there is a duplicate questions post already, but thats a good idea. So did you already receive your books and the answers? If not please post them, when you get them or give them to the arcanum.

@Yata Well, if Kelsier cept his mistborn status, when being revived, he would only need the feruchemical powers. And the Inquisitors seemed to have the most important ones, like feruchemical gold or steel. I mean you could go without the ability to store breath, but with out healing or speed, you wouldnt want to miss out on this.

[Aerlion]

15 minutes ago, Krios said:

I dont think, that there is a duplicate questions post already, but thats a good idea. So did you already receive your books and the answers? If not please post them, when you get them or give them to the arcanum.

Not yet, the books should ship this month. I will add the answers as soon as I get them

[Yata he/him]

59 minutes ago, Krios said:

 

@Yata Well, if Kelsier cept his mistborn status, when being revived, he would only need the feruchemical powers. And the Inquisitors seemed to have the most important ones, like feruchemical gold or steel. I mean you could go without the ability to store breath, but with out healing or speed, you wouldnt want to miss out on this.

Kel and Spook had access only to the Inquisitors' spikes kept in the blood jar into TLR's Palace. His Inquisitors has mostly F-gold alone as Feruchemical Spikes. There were some weird spikes (like the F-Atium Marsh retrived) but we could assume there weren't many Feruchemical Powers. You confuse them with Ruin's Inquisitors who gained F-abilities from killing the Keepers.

Personally I believe that Kel has only a couple of powers innested into himself, mostly to overcome magical problems so like F-Alluminium and F-Duralluminium. He probably really on magictech for the rest. This is at least how I see the situation, my speculation is as good as your

[Krios]

@Aerlion Thanks.

@Yata I just assumed that spikes inside the dead inquisitor flesh wouldnt decay just like they dont decay in also dead blood. I went along the lines of retrieving the spikes from the corpses of Ruins inquisitors from the ruins of Kredikshaw.

 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

My Hemalurgy question: if a person’s heart stops and, during the period where s/he could be revived, one person did CPR while another spiked the person, would it work? Or how dead do you have to be before Hemalurgy no longer works? 

Also: can you steal human intelligence from someone who is brain dead? And how does brain death work in the Cosmere anyway...

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

My Hemalurgy question: if a person’s heart stops and, during the period where s/he could be revived, one person did CPR while another spiked the person, would it work? Or how dead do you have to be before Hemalurgy no longer works? 

you could do it, there is a WoB about Spikes a corpse and it states is possible if it dies from not too much. The Spirit-Web deteriorates fast but it's not instaneaous

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Also: can you steal human intelligence from someone who is brain dead? And how does brain death work in the Cosmere anyway...

If Intelligence is a Stealable attribute at all. You will be able of doing it if the brain-dead status came from a physical reason and but not if it's something coded into the guy's soul.(so if the guy becomed brain dead for a Spiritual reason). You steal from the hidden Spiritual Template of the victim, his actual conditions are meaningless....To say, if someone with an innate strong body is spiked after he got a lethal disease who almost kill him and turned him into a cripled....The Hemalurgy will still steal the "innate strenght" his Soul has encoded into

Edited January 2, 2018 by Yata