[OB, MB] Imitating Singer Forms; Magitech vs. Hemalurgy

[Ciridae]

I've been thinking a lot about Singer forms, fabrials, and the future of Rosharan technology. 

I believe that fabrial technology has the potential to alter the physical aspect through manipulation of the spritweb, much like hemalurgy. 

When it comes down to it, Koloss, Kandra and Singer forms are exactly the same thing. Beings whose spiritwebs have a piece of investiture artificially grafted to it. The extra piece of investiture alters the spiritweb, and as a result, a different physical and cognitive form is expressed. Using hemalurgy to alter the physical is messy, and extremely difficult. The only examples we have are Koloss and Kandra (and to a degree Inquisitors), created through the knowledge of Ascension along with whispers from Ruin, and the Chimeras, that were probably created with the help of some very knowledgeable foreign entity. Even in the thousand years after his Ascension Rashek wasn't able to create any new servants through hemalurgy. 

But on Roshar the process is facilitated through the spren, convenient and plentiful packages of investiture, and a singular grafting point to the spiritweb, the gemheart. 

So the idea is, that eventually someone figures out how to attach a fabrial to someone's soul, maybe in an attempt to grant powers permanently without the fickle Nahel bond. Whether or not that actually works is up in the air, but I'm certain it would have ramifications on their physical form. 

The main difference to creating hemalurgic creatures here is that the artificial gemhearts would probably only slightly alter a normal blueprint of the physical, like we see with the Singer forms. So I think just how Singers build up their physical and cognitive aspects through the spren bonds, humans could likewise change their aspects, with a lot of potential, not only in the physical realm.  

The best thing is, that we already have an example of a human grafting a spren to their soul with their physical form being altered as a result. Yelig-nar is a piece of investiture tied to a grafting point that anyone can use.

The primary purpose is to grant the ten surges to whoever 'bonds' Yelig-nar, but what's really interesting is what happens to the wielder's body. There's a huge change, most internal organs being replaced by a cavity holding the gem, and crystals growing from the skin. The first time reading OB I assumed it was mostly something added to look cool, to add some visuals to the climax of the book. But Amaram's body changing so dramatically makes a lot of sense. His soul was just drastically altered, that should have ramifications in the physical realm. 

How Yelig-nar's gemstone allows for an anchor point to someone's soul is a mystery to me, just as why gemhearts appear to be a physical slot inducing change in the spiritual realm in the first place.

What's truly fascinating about all this though is that the key point to physically transforming is the gemheart. We have plenty of examples of spren bonds that don't result in dramatic transformations. Both Surgebinders and the Sadeas soldiers in Thaylen City are in a spren bond whose only physical expression is the color of their eyes. 

So what lets gemhearts facilitate physical transformations? I'm not certain, but I'm think the transformation aspect is a key part of Roshar's investiture based ecosystem. We know that greatshells rely on Mandras to reduce the effects of gravity on their bodies to survive. In addition, I think that most creatures with gemhearts need them not only for the powers they may grant, but also to help in the natural transformations between various lifestages. There's a reason chasmfiends pupate during highstorms. 

Fabrial tech is an extension of what we see in Roshar's nature. I think with enough realmatic knowledge someone could figure out how to copy nature and apply it to humans. The Singer forms and other applications of the gemheart in nature are probably far more elegant than what humans could create in the near future, but with enough tinkering who knows what could happen. Maybe some of this could be applied to animals as well. Think horses with carapace or faster, more powerful chull.

Some thoughts to end on, I have no idea how a fabrial could be attached to a person's soul. The best I can come up with is that someone who can access the spiritweb, like the Nightwatcher or Sja-anat, if what they do even touches the spiritweb, would have to help in the process. I doubt you could do it from the Cognitive Realm, but who knows. 

I'm also uncertain how spiritual changes directly affect the physical. On Roshar, most lifeforms seem to use stormlight to power their transformations during highstorms. On Scadrial, spiritual changes seem to express a change without the help of additional investiture. 

I hope most of this was coherent enough to make a little sense. I think Roshar's ecosystem is beautifully imagined, and I love how intricate and mysterious is still is. There's a lot we don't know, but with a magitech society on the rise in Roshar's future, I'm certain we'll see great things. 

[Glubbdrubb]

I imagine "attaching" a fabrial with a captured flame spren (in a ruby?), which allows me to shoot fire!

Or an electricity spren, when that's eventually discovered, so I can shoot lightning.

 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

@Ciridae awesome post!

The ethics of imprisoning sapient spren in fabrial gemstones to grant access to surges is little iffy though. Turning Syl into a fabrial super hero belt would probably anger all of the Honor spren and the Stormfather too. We know from Malata's spren Spark that there are sapient spren that are OK with siding with Odium because of the Recreance, I think more Sapient spren capable of granting access to surges would likewise side with Odium if Humans started imprisoning them in fabrial gemstones. They are self-aware, intelligent pieces of Investiture and they wouldn't appreciate being enslaved.

Ryshadiums are an interesting case too, do they have a gemheart? Does that explain their increased size, stone hoofs and extra level of intelligence?

[.S.A.M.K.M]

It seems to me that it implied that lesser spren are involved in the creation of shard plate. What if a form is created using void spren? That could allow humans a pseudo version linked to the forms of power the regals use. We know that ordinary armor conveys speed and strength, void armor would grant other properties.

[Ciridae]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I was thinking about lesser spren, like most Singer forms use anyway. As far as we know Venli is the first Singer since the betrayal of the spren and the arrival of humans to bond a Nahel spren. And it seems larger Voidspren like Ulim don't usually end up bonding Singers either.

 

@.S.A.M.K.M We know so little about Plate that it's impossible to say, but it's an interesting idea. Even if Plate turns out to work differently, the forms of power would probably be available to copy if you can get your hands on the right voidspren. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

7 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

the forms of power would probably be available to copy if you can get your hands on the right voidspren. 

I have to agree with this. Fabrials can duplicate Voidbinding, after all.

Quote

Questioner

Is, like, fabrials that can imitate, I mean, very specific forms of Surgebinding... Are there fabrials that can imitate the Surge-- <stages> of Voidbinding?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. That is theoretically possible.

As for the actual post, you raise some very interesting points. I like it, even if I'm not sure how it will play out in the future.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

@Ciridae makes more sense, like @Glubbdrubb ideas. Spren based hacked super powers, using fabrial technology somehow joined directly to the spirt web.

How about we come up with new possible Rosharan Fabrial Super Heroes?

Here's one that would be pretty rad, The Human Half Shard, made just like a Jah Kevedian half shard. I wonder if the increased strength could be translated to physical strength as well as durability and the ability to stop a shard blade with his bare skin.

Here's another one that would be pretty cool, the Pain Fist, could use Pain spren like Navani's panrial tazer, and could dull his pain when injured. If this was combined with the a progession surge enabled fabrial, the Pain Fist could be a lot like Wolverine with a low pain threshold, heightened healing powers and the ability to dish out pain, literally.

Here's another one, Span Rita, could have a magic lasso that is conjoined to her Span reeded hand (so she can control it at a distance).

Here's another one Breeze 2.0, using a fabrial matrix with a passion spren, a pain spren, a joy spren, and an awe spren, maybe you could have the ability to have the ultimate soother/rioter.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

The listerners have a natural ability to grow carapace as needed, so it might not all be the power of void spren.

[Peet]

I saw "magitek" and thought you were going to make a connection to Final Fantasy. 

Edit: hmm, inserting the image isn't working for me... Got it,  thanks @hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Edited January 2, 2018 by Peet
technology

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

@Peet I think the problem was that you were linking to a google search image. You should always follow the google search image to the source and reference that.

I have Photoshop, so I got a screen capture of the image you wanted, uploaded it to the shard's Server, here it is, and by the way it's totally rad.

Final Fantasy VI (or as it was released in the US for the SNES Final Fantasy III) is my favorite games of all time, so totally glad that I could this amazing bit of Yoshitako Amano art up on the forums for you.