[OB] Odium's Duality

[Radiant Returned he/him]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but this is the first theory I've ever thought of without hearing someone's else's input that I'm actually confident in, and it relates to Rayse/Odium's dynamic and being. 

The following quote from the end of Oathbringer has been getting a lot of attention. 

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"No!" Odium screamed. He stepped forward. "No, we killed you. WE KILLED YOU!"

Dalinar stood within a pillar of light and spinning gloryspren, one hand to each side, clutching the realms that made up reality. - Pg. 1139

I've seen a lot of ideas from different people about why Odium says "we", from 1.) He confused Dalinar for Adonalsium and was referencing the 16 original Vessels to 2.) thinking he is Honor and implying that another Shard helped Odium kill Honor be it Autonomy or even Ambition to 3.) he's simply referencing "we" as in the Unmade or his other followers, kinda a hive/group mentality. Regardless, Sanderson has RAFO'd all questions about it. But I don't think it's any of these things, I think Rayse alone has mastered how to split the power he holds (of Odium or Passion) from that of his own personality (Rayse the human). 

We see in every other circumstance, be it Ruin or Preservation or Cultivation, that the Vessels have been shaped by the Intent of their power, warping their personality. I think one of the things that has allowed Odium to become so dangerous even compared to other Shards is he figured out how to keep his own personality and desires separate from that of his Intent. In the WoR letter from Frost to Hoid, we see this quote referencing Odium: 

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I suspect that he is more a force than an individual now, despite your insistence to the contrary.

From this, we see that Hoid himself thinks that Rayse remains an individual with the same goals that Rayse set out with in the beginning. Personally, I trust Hoid's opinion on matters in the Cosmere more than any other character. This allows Rayse to remain level headed, even charismatic, during his interactions with Dalinar and others when he desires during OB. He is able to differentiate his personality and mind from that of the Odium, which would by itself hate everything and want to just destroy destroy destroy, similar to Ruin, or at the least live passionately and live in extremes. Rayse is able to harness that power when he needs to, and I'm sure it has affected him to some extent, but he is able to control that aspect and keep it separate. 

This is why, in his moment of shock and denial, Rayse and Odium both yell in outrage "WE", because the desire to kill Honor reigns forefront in both of their minds. I think this could have huge implications, including Odium's ability to wield the powers of his Shard with less personal risk or restriction, as well as perhaps how he is able to create a Champion later on. There's a lot we don't know, but as of now I'm pretty confident in this theory.

That being said, rip it to shreds in the comments below or tell me what you think (as well as if this has already been discussed somewhere and I simply missed it). 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Radiant Returned
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[Calderis he/him]

Don't know if you're correct. I like it though. Have an upvote. 

[Calyx]

I think Brandon has stated that the reason Odium shatters shards instead of killing their holders and taking up the shard himself is that he doesn't want another shard to interfere with his intent, which he likes.

I also seem to remember Hoid saying (in one of the letters?) that Rayse was a loathsome individual, and a particularly good fit with his shard's intent.

[The Sovereign]

@Calyx:

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Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.^[6] He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the Shards.

@Radiant Returned, Not sure if your theory is right but I like it a lot. I tend to agree with you that Hoid may indeed know what his is talking about.

However, for the sake of debate I think it should be considered that the "We" could refer to Rayse having help in taking down Honor. If this were the case I would guess that Bavadin would be the most likely candidate.

@Ookla, the Incalculable, you get an upvote for basically preemptively reading my mind 

Edited December 12, 2017 by The Sovereign

[Radiant Returned he/him]

52 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

However, for the sake of debate I think it should be considered that the "We" could refer to Rayse having help in taking down Honor. If this were the case I would guess that Bavadin would be the most likely candidate.

I agree, if that is the case Bavadin is who I think it is, and this would be my second-favorite theory for the "we". 

@Calyx I've actually thought about that some, could it be possible that Rayse picked the Shard he fit with best because maybe that would make it easier for him to control/use without corrupting himself? Maybe he could use the Intent as a boost as opposed to having it override his normal motives.