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[OB] The 5th Ideal


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The 5th Ideal

As far as we’re aware there aren’t too many facts available for what the 5th ideal entails in terms of progression for the Knights Radiant and I couldn’t find much searching so thought I’d try this out and see what people think. Below is a list of the progression we know (we pretty much know 4th ideal will give plate)

1st Ideal – infuse Stormlight

2nd Ideal – Surgebinding

3rd Ideal – Shardblade

4th Ideal – Shardplate (presumably)

Along with the above points it seems like they become more efficient at storing / using stormlight for surgebinding along with an increase in the Nahel bond.

So I was thinking what could the fifth Ideal provide and what else we know about it.

We have a few hints that I’ve been able to remember as follows;

Nale states that he is the only Skyrunner to reach the fifth ideal in centuries and that a Skybreaker who reaches the fifth ideal embodies (becomes the embodiment of?) the law.

Ishar originally founded the ideals as a measure to control the power of the Knights, so it’s safe to assume that the fifth ideal is the ultimate use of surgebinding

We know that without Honor around to keep checks on the Radiant’s Nale is scared of what they can do.

Now my theory is that the fifth ideal give the Knight Radiant a Connection to Honor’s power in the Spiritual realm enabling them to fuel surgebinding directly rather than having to inhale stormlight. I don’t think this would be a constant connection but by becoming the embodiment of the attribute of their order they could “power up” (almost like how Vin powers her alomancy directly from the mists from her Connection to Preservation). As we have seen from Dalinar accessing Honor’s perpendicuality a lot more can be achieved by Radiants with a large store of investiture available.

The reason that Knights of the fifth ideal wouldn’t be running around constantly like this would be that by becoming the “embodiment” of the attribute would actually make the Nahel bond so strong that you’d see the human partner taking on the intent of their bonded spren and would suppress their normal human emotions.

My reasoning behind this is threefold. Firstly we’ve seen that Odium seems to not just embody Hate but Passion, having seen him able to possess the Alethi soldiers who were caught up with the thrill and wanting Dalinar’s pain. I have a feeling emotion is going to play into the Stormlight Archive a lot more in the upcoming books than it has in the first two and it seems like the ideal weapon to fight Odium/Passion would be to have superpowered knights who dampen / supress their emotions so the intent of their ideals is their sole driving force and wouldn’t be influenced by Odium/Passion.

Secondly, I think that Dalinar’s whole “I am Unity” shtick was him accessing the powers behind the firth ideal (Spiritual Connection) but only by saying the third ideal which is what I’m sure was shocked the Stormfather. He’s not used to this level of power being used by someone who’s only said the third ideal.

Thirdly, we know that Skybreakers who have said the fifth ideal would become the embodiment of the Law so it fits that the embodiment of a Bondsmith would be Unity.

Now, I’ve not really been able to fit many of the other orders into this theory, Windrunners would become The Protector for example and my knowledge of realmatic theory isn’t great but I just thought I’d put it out there and see what people think.

(apologies if I've missed out spoiler tags etc, first time posting)

Edited by Stonerwarden
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If we see another order's fifth oath I can see something were the fifth oath is "I am (thing)" (two starts to make a pattern with the skybreakers) in which case "I am Unity" could In Theory be Dalinar's fifth oath hence giving him said connection to Honor as we see him use. However I don't really like the emotionally numb idea much, it feels like that would take 3D characters and flatten them.

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I can see what you mean but it could lead to conflict with the characters as well. Giving them a consequence of having access to the higher surgebindings, having to possibly sacrifice their being / sense of self in order to save Roshar and would also act as a preventative to them destroying it with Surgebindings.

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