(OB) Lack of Shard Plate

[digitalbusker he/him]

On 12/7/2017 at 4:38 PM, bo.montier said:

none of the main characters manifested plate, despite the fact that Shallan was a level beyond Kaladin at the end of WoR, and despite Jasnah having been a radiant for some time (I assume she's reached the 4th ideal).

We have reason to believe* that Shallan actually does have her Plate, but doesn't know it because she cray.

Jasnah I don't know about. There's a scene where she throws somebody from off screen, then appears to have some kind of nimbus that might be the afterimage of the Plate she just dismissed, but it could also be related to the Transportation surge somehow.

*: When Veil, Shallan, and Radiant are standing hand in hand during the battle, Radiant is described as wearing appropriately colored glowing Shardplate. At the end of the battle Radiant, not Shallan, turns out to be the one of the three that's not illusionary.

[bo.montier]

24 minutes ago, Ookla the Busker said:

We have reason to believe* that Shallan actually does have her Plate, but doesn't know it because she cray.

Jasnah I don't know about. There's a scene where she throws somebody from off screen, then appears to have some kind of nimbus that might be the afterimage of the Plate she just dismissed, but it could also be related to the Transportation surge somehow.

*: When Veil, Shallan, and Radiant are standing hand in hand during the battle, Radiant is described as wearing appropriately colored glowing Shardplate. At the end of the battle Radiant, not Shallan, turns out to be the one of the three that's not illusionary.

That's actually part of why I think there's some secondary requirement beyond simply reaching the 4th ideal. The Blades came pretty easily, but no one is manifesting Plate consistently, despite some of them being at the 4th Ideal.

Obviously I could be way off base.

[redbishop]

Shallan got pretty cagey in part 2 when Jasnah asked her where her armor was, if she was a full Radiant.  I suspect that she already has/had it, but is repressing it because of some thus-far-unrevealed trauma from her childhood, much as she did with the Patternblade.

This assumes that Lightweavers get their Plate earlier than other orders, as they seem to with Blades.

[Jace21 he/him]

18 minutes ago, redbishop said:

This assumes that Lightweavers get their Plate earlier than other orders, as they seem to with Blades.

I agree that Shallan has been repressing knowledge of her plate but why do you think Lightweavers get their plate and blade earlier than anyone else? 

Shallan is only shown with hers the same as when any other Radiant would have it. The case if her bond having regressed complicates matters slightly but I still assume she always had them at the same ideals as everyone else.

[redbishop]

I am utterly failing at copying in the WoB from Arcanum (Here), but he says that 3rd Ideal is usually when you get a sprenblade.

At the end of WoR, Shallan was at 4 Oaths (or one, plus three truths), as WoB tells us she is one ahead of Kaladin.  We have seen her tell two Truths, so at the beginning of the Series, she was at Two*, yet had summoned a Blade in her Youth and implied that she could summon one if needed, even before stating any Truths on-screen.

There is an argument that could be made that she had repressed/weakened her Bond with Pattern, though Kaladin 'killed' Syl and regained his standing by swearing the Third Ideal of the Windrunners, he didn't have to 'redo' anything.

* I think.  I don't have the text handy, and now I worry.

[DocHoliday he/him]

39 minutes ago, redbishop said:

I am utterly failing at copying in the WoB from Arcanum (Here), but he says that 3rd Ideal is usually when you get a sprenblade.

At the end of WoR, Shallan was at 4 Oaths (or one, plus three truths), as WoB tells us she is one ahead of Kaladin.  We have seen her tell two Truths, so at the beginning of the Series, she was at Two*, yet had summoned a Blade in her Youth and implied that she could summon one if needed, even before stating any Truths on-screen.

There is an argument that could be made that she had repressed/weakened her Bond with Pattern, though Kaladin 'killed' Syl and regained his standing by swearing the Third Ideal of the Windrunners, he didn't have to 'redo' anything.

* I think.  I don't have the text handy, and now I worry.

Shallon is a special case. Oaths said, but repressed into the subconscious...it's almost schizophrenia. Shallon didn't really break her Truths, but at the same time the person walking around as "Shallon" dosnt know them.

I've been toying with the idea that the Shallon we the readers know, is actually a split personality of "Little Shallon". Comments from Pattern "This isn't the lie, Shallon. Can't you tell?" And other things about the timeline when Shallon got Patternblade as a child arnt adding up. I havnt fleshed my theory out yet, waiting to re-read OB and dig into her chapters first.

[Stormfather-in-Law]

6 hours ago, WardenGiggles said:

So, this might be a bit of a tangent from this thread, but is Kaladin's plate going to be made up of Windspren? The times it's seemed like he's been close to saying the Words, there were windspren conspicuously around him. And if so, are there other cousins to the highspren that the orders bond that will make up their Plate?

I thought the same thing, but not from noticing windspren nearby when he is close to oaths. For me it was when he saved the townsfolk from the highstorm by forming a barrier of windspren. I thought, 'this is a predecessor to plate' when reading that scene.

[WardenGiggles]

Just now, Stormfather-in-Law said:

I thought the same thing, but not from noticing windspren nearby when he is close to oaths. For me it was when he saved the townsfolk from the highstorm by forming a barrier of windspren. I thought, 'this is a predecessor to plate' when reading that scene.

But that's an active ability, whereas Plate is passive object (at least in its dead incarnation). I would think that would be....something else. I don't know what though.

[Song she/her]

6 hours ago, WardenGiggles said:

So, this might be a bit of a tangent from this thread, but is Kaladin's plate going to be made up of Windspren? The times it's seemed like he's been close to saying the Words, there were windspren conspicuously around him. And if so, are there other cousins to the highspren that the orders bond that will make up their Plate?

That is what I assume. And Dalinar's of glory spren.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

If you need to say all five oaths to get plate, does that mean the heralds never had plate?

[redbishop]

13 hours ago, .S.A.M.K.M said:

If you need to say all five oaths to get plate, does that mean the heralds never had plate?

I don't think we've seen anything that suggests they did, and there was no mention of it way back in WoK.

Although it could be argued that Nale probably does, now.  Or could.