[OB]Knights Radiant List

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

On 11/24/2017 at 0:43 PM, PhineasGage said:

I was wondering where we got the idea that lightspren bond willshapers? I got the impression that the reachers were the ones that bonded them given the interest in travel? I'm not saying I'm right, simply my own impression. Info would be appreciated.

3

So, Willshapers are suspected to have been explorers, which is largely supported by the Amethyst entries in the Epigraphs from Part 3 of Oathbringer. Combine this with Azure's statement that Lightspren are usually guides, and that the boat she used was piloted by Lightspren, as well as how the Reachers are Lightspren, and the most explorative of the Spren.

[PhineasGage]

 

9 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

So, Willshapers are suspected to have been explorers, which is largely supported by the Amethyst entries in the Epigraphs from Part 3 of Oathbringer. Combine this with Azure's statement that Lightspren are usually guides, and that the boat she used was piloted by Lightspren, as well as how the Reachers are Lightspren, and the most explorative of the Spren

Oh so Reachers are lightspren.  Thanks - I somehow got the idea they were different. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

28 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

Oh so Reachers are lightspren.  Thanks - I somehow got the idea they were different. 

2

Take a look at the Coppermind entry for Lightspren .

[Edvarin he/him]

Brightlord Maelstrom, I updated the list to show that was taken from the Cpt Ico's daughter is Timbre theory.

[ZenBossanova]

I am still trying to understand the whole 'I am Unity' line, but if the 5th Skybreaker oath is 'I am Law', then it is possible that what Dalinar was saying, was actually the 5th oath of his order. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him]

7 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I am still trying to understand the whole 'I am Unity' line, but if the 5th Skybreaker oath is 'I am Law', then it is possible that what Dalinar was saying, was actually the 5th oath of his order. 

You mind want to look at...

 

[Edvarin he/him]

Added a description of Truthwatcher spren I found in my reread of OB.

[Edvarin he/him]

Also added notes on Oath progression and Bondsmith Oaths courtesy of Beatsmorn.

[Edvarin he/him]

Updated Bondsmith Oaths upon learning of a WoB from Hoidonalsium confirming that only a single Oath was spoken at the end of OB.

[IronBars he/him]

Im very late to this post, apologies for dredging it up, but renarin is not a truth watcher so he should be removed from that section, also why is venli listed as a willshaper ?

[digitalbusker he/him]

1 minute ago, IronBars said:

Im very late to this post, apologies for dredging it up, but renarin is not a truth watcher so he should be removed from that section, also why is venli listed as a willshaper ?

The question of whether Renarin "counts" as a Truthwatcher is complicated, and will probably come up in world. He certainly merits an asterisk, but I think the notation in the original post is sufficient.

Venli is listed as a Willshaper because she is bonded to Timbre, who is a Lightspren, which is the kind of spren associated with Willshapers.

[IronBars he/him]

7 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

The question of whether Renarin "counts" as a Truthwatcher is complicated, and will probably come up in world. He certainly merits an asterisk, but I think the notation in the original post is sufficient.

Venli is listed as a Willshaper because she is bonded to Timbre, who is a Lightspren, which is the kind of spren associated with Willshapers.

Renarin is bonded to an odium spren so cant be a truthwatcher so shouldnt be there imo

Where is it said light spren represent willshapers ? Dont recall reading that could you say where thats said so i can look it up, thanks

[digitalbusker he/him]

15 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Renarin is bonded to an odium spren so cant be a truthwatcher so shouldnt be there imo

Where is it said light spren represent willshapers ? Dont recall reading that could you say where thats said so i can look it up, thanks

Glys is, as far as we can tell, a standard Truthwatcher spren that has been corrupted by Sja-Anat. That doesn't make him an Odium spren. You're entitled to your opinion that Renarin shouldn't count as a Truthwatcher for that or any other reason; like I said, it's complicated.

The association of Lightspren (aka Reachers) with Willshapers is never explicitly stated, nor is it explicitly confirmed that Timbre is a Lightspren. It's mostly process of elimination. We have accounted for most everything else. The brief version: Eshonai seemed to fit the idea of a Willshaper pretty well, and Timbre was trying to bond her. We have a WoB that Venli is of the same order as her sister. As for why we think she's a Lightspren, compare Captain Ico's description of his father and daughter to Timbre's description of her grandfather. In the physical realm, Timbre communicates with Venli via pulses, and the Reachers on Ico's ship communicate via some kind of similar vibration system through copper conductors.

Also: assuming that there were in fact one member (or future member) of each Order represented at the end of Oathbringer, the only orders we don't firmly have a lock on are Stonewards, Releasers (Dustbringers), and Willshapers. We have reasons to expect Ash and Taln to be a Releaser and a Stoneward, respectively, so that leaves Willshaper for Venli.

[IronBars he/him]

24 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

Glys is, as far as we can tell, a standard Truthwatcher spren that has been corrupted by Sja-Anat. That doesn't make him an Odium spren. You're entitled to your opinion that Renarin shouldn't count as a Truthwatcher for that or any other reason; like I said, it's complicated.

The fact its a corrupted spren makes it an odium spren, renarin had the red eyes to prove it. So he cant be a truthwatcher. I know renarin has alot of fans (don't know why) but its rather uncomplicated that at this point he is not a truthwatcher and thats just a fact.

24 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

The association of Lightspren (aka Reachers) with Willshapers is never explicitly stated, nor is it explicitly confirmed that Timbre is a Lightspren. It's mostly process of elimination. We have accounted for most everything else. The brief version: Eshonai seemed to fit the idea of a Willshaper pretty well, and Timbre was trying to bond her. We have a WoB that Venli is of the same order as her sister. As for why we think she's a Lightspren, compare Captain Ico's description of his father and daughter to Timbre's description of her grandfather. In the physical realm, Timbre communicates with Venli via pulses, and the Reachers on Ico's ship communicate via some kind of similar vibration system through copper conductors.

So venli being listed as a willshaper is all supposition ? 

Im sorry but she shouldnt be listed then, in a post that is a list of known knights radiant and there order it should only show proven knight radiants not any based on supposition, that cloudes the issue needlessly, 

Im not trying to be awkward of contradictory but makes no sense to have a list of known knights radiant and the order there in, with people listed who are 1) unknown to be knights radiant and 2) unknown what order they belong to

Edited February 18, 2018 by IronBars
Clarity

[digitalbusker he/him]

27 minutes ago, IronBars said:

The fact its a corrupted spren makes it an odium spren, renarin had the red eyes to prove it

Go ahead and cite where it defines what an "Odium spren" is and that red eyes are proof of that. And where Renarin's eyes glow red, for that matter. Bonus points if you also cover what, if anything, makes Glys different from Ulim and co, or the Voidspren that provide Listener forms of power, and whether they should count as Odium spren too.

[DocHoliday he/him]

I thought Teft had only sworn the second ideal?

[MountainKing]

12 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

I thought Teft had only sworn the second ideal?

He swore the first and second ideal off stage.

[digitalbusker he/him]

11 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

I thought Teft had only sworn the second ideal?

He swore the third "I will protect even those I hate..." at the end of Oathbringer, which is how he got the blade he needed to operate the oathgate to come to the rescue at Thaylen City.

[IronBars he/him]

7 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

Go ahead and cite where it defines what an "Odium spren" is and that red eyes are proof of that. And where Renarin's eyes glow red, for that matter. Bonus points if you also cover what, if anything, makes Glys different from Ulim and co, or the Voidspren that provide Listener forms of power, and whether they should count as Odium spren too.

I just checked the book, doesnt say hes eyes are red, i mis remembered that, says his spren is red, ivory also says hes spren is of odium and hes powers are of odiun tho, red eyes as a trait of odium is a given though when all sadeas men etc have glowing red eyes as well as parshmen, 

[digitalbusker he/him]

Hopefully one of our Arcanum ninjas can swoop in with the supporting WoB for this, because I don't have time to look it up right now, but: Red isn't Odium's color (it's gold). Red investiture signifies one shard's investiture being "corrupted" by another's. Which is why Glys is red. Not that Odium isn't involved, in all the cases you cite. He is. It's just that Glys's color doesn't necessarily indicate that he's controlled by or loyal to Odium.

ETA: the part of that that there's a WoB for is the significance of the color red. Gold being Odium's color is well supported, I think, but that's not something that's been explicitly canonized as far as I know.

Edited February 18, 2018 by digitalbusker
Clarified

[IronBars he/him]

So is your argument that renarins spren isnt an odium spren that he is infact lets say a cultivation spren ?

Every other red spren in SA seems to be odiums so that is a stretch imo but maybe your right, just has powers associated with odium by chance i guess

Edited February 18, 2018 by IronBars

[MountainKing]

Quote

FirstSelector [PENDING REVIEW]

Does red in cosmere signify one Shard co-opting or corrupting another Shard's magic?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

source

And what other red spren, the only red spren I can think off is anticipation spren, and they are of cultivation.

[digitalbusker he/him]

20 minutes ago, IronBars said:

So is your argument that renarins spren isnt an odium spren that he is infact lets say a cultivation spren ?

Every other red spren in SA seems to be odiums so that is a stretch imo but maybe your right, just has powers associated with odium by chance i guess

That is not remotely my argument, and if you honestly came away from my post with that impression, I think we're done here.

"So is your argument that we're about halfway done here?"

ETA: @MountainKing Other red spren that I can think of:

Flamespren

Angerspren

Stormspren

Nergaoul

Not, notably, whatever Ulim is.

Edited February 18, 2018 by digitalbusker
Added a thing

[IronBars he/him]

Red investiture signifies one shard's investiture being "corrupted" by another's.

Which is why Glys is red.

Not that Odium isn't involved, in all the cases you cite. He is. It's just that Glys's color doesn't necessarily indicate that he's controlled by or loyal to Odium.

That above quote made it seem you were implying glys wasnt corrupted by odium, unless i somehow misread it, but its how it seemed, and since cultivation is the other shard on roshar seemed you implied she corrupted say a spren from honour.

Fair enough if i misread it

[MountainKing]

So corruption works, by forcing your influence on another shard's investiture. They can do that because all investiture used to be assigned to Adonsalium, but now it's not. But because the spren is sapient, even if Odium's "hacks" in to his investiture, he doesn't have to follow Odium, but Odium can influence him, and he has access to Odium's version of the shards.