KC Hammer Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 Thinking about the ways that Fused get powers to Knights Radiant I saw an interesting relation. In the case of the Fused, the entity that gives them the power takes control of both the body and the power, where as KR the entity that gives the power also gives up control. It seems similar to how Allomancy and Hemalurgy are related but opposite of each other. 1
KidWayne he/him Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 I'm not sure the Fused are using voidbinding. I think that they are surgebinding with a different power source (i.e. Odium's investiture). The Regals (like Venli and the Parshendi in Stormform) are the ones I suspect of using voidbinding. We just haven't seen very much of it yet. 1
shawnhargreaves he/him Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, KidWayne said: I'm not sure the Fused are using voidbinding. I think that they are surgebinding with a different power source (i.e. Odium's investiture). Agreed. I don't think we understand what voidbinding is yet. Perhaps what the Stormform listeners did, and very likely Renarin's visions, but the mechanics of these are still unexplained. Voidbinding manipulates the same underlying surges as Surgebinding, but I expect its abilities and results will be far more different than what we saw the Fused do. Hemalurgy is not a good analogy for this. That is about stealing powers, rather than the powers themselves - and can in theory be used to steal any magical ability.
KC Hammer Posted November 23, 2017 Author Posted November 23, 2017 Fine if not voidbinding, just how cognitive shadows relating to odium in some way bind with living people compared to how Honor's spren bind themselves. The term doesn't really matter. It's just about how they are opposite of each other yet still similar in form similar to how Ruin and Preservation's give power.
KC Hammer Posted November 23, 2017 Author Posted November 23, 2017 However I did find this in WOB. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6734. Based on the voidbinding chart we know there is a one to one correlation between voidbinding and surgebinding. I think you could then imply that stormform is not surgebinding, and neither are the other forms of power. In addition there are differences between the flying Fused and the KR lashings that I don't think a different power source would account for. It seems like it is a different if related power.
Fulminato he/him Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 On 22/11/2017 at 11:14 PM, KidWayne said: I'm not sure the Fused are using voidbinding. I think that they are surgebinding with a different power source (i.e. Odium's investiture). The Regals (like Venli and the Parshendi in Stormform) are the ones I suspect of using voidbinding. We just haven't seen very much of it yet. A coalition has been formed among scholar Radiants. Our goal is to deny the enemy their supply of Voidlight; this will prevent their continuing transformations, and give us an edge in combat. —From drawer 30-20, second emerald ephigrap chapter 78 "the revel" i don't know how the fused can use the voidlight aside from voidbinding.
KidWayne he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 18 hours ago, Fulminato said: A coalition has been formed among scholar Radiants. Our goal is to deny the enemy their supply of Voidlight; this will prevent their continuing transformations, and give us an edge in combat. —From drawer 30-20, second emerald ephigrap chapter 78 "the revel" i don't know how the fused can use the voidlight aside from voidbinding. Easy, voidlight and stormlight both grant access to the surges. Regardless of which type of investiture is being used, manipulating the surges is still surgebinding. I propose that voidbinding is something entirely different. It may related to the surges, but I believe that the way in which it does so will manifest in a manner wholly unlike the familiar varieties of surgebinding we have seen from the Knights Radiant and the Fused (which are for all intents and purposes the same). Contrast that with the Parshendi "Stormform" that gave them the ability to summon the Everstorm and manipulate lightning. That is not something we have seen a Knight Radiant do. Also, consider Renarin's strange ability to see the future. I propose that these are examples of voidbinding. Side Note: The Fused are the returned souls of ancient singers, right? We also know that the spren "betrayed" the singers by preferring to bond humans, right? Well, what if the souls of the Fused simply retain the surgebinding abilities once granted to them by their bond with a spren that we would think of as associated with an order of the Knights Radiant?
Beatsmorn Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Options i considered: 1. Voidbinding is connected to the Unmade, each Unmade grants Voidbinding power, for example, Yelig-Nar Voidbinding allows to mimic KR Surges. Fused are or are not Voidbinding. - kind of likely. 2. Voidbinding is connected to voidspren similarly to Surgebinding being related to true spren, Parshendi forms of power are very similar to human Voidbinders. Voidbinding is accessible to both races. Venli can Surgebind at the end of the Oathbringer. Fused are not Voidbinding. - kind of likely, but I don't like how it makes human Surgebinders/Voidbinders and Parshendi so similar, when it was told they are distinct, and the bond they make with spren is different 3. Voidbinding is connected to voidspren. Parshendi forms of power are voidbinding. Voidbinding is not accessible to human. Venli can or cannot Surgebind at the end of the Oathbringer. Fused are not Voidbinding. - very unlikely, due to what we know now about destruction of Tranquiline Halls. 4. Voidbinding is connected to voidspren. Parshendi forms of power are NOT voidbinding, but something different. Only human can voidbind. Venli CANNOT Surgebind at the end of the Oathbringer - she is something different than Surgebinder. Fused are not Voidbinding. - my favorite theory so far, as it makes human Surge/Voidbinders and Parshendi forms of power distinct. 5. Voidbinding is not connected to spren or Unmade - is granted by favor of Odium. Fused are Voidbinding. - very unlikely, as it is magic SYSTEM, and it sound too Old-magic like to be magic system. 6. Voidbinding is not connected to spren or Unmade, it is accessible by other condition, for example rituals, sacrifices or stuff like this. Fused are Voidbinding. - almost no evidence in books for this, except little story in WoR about human sacrificing his son to Voidbringers, and this story is at least partially false. Sounds cool though. Edited November 24, 2017 by Beatsmorn 1
KidWayne he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, KC Hammer said: However I did find this in WOB. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/218/#e6734. Based on the voidbinding chart we know there is a one to one correlation between voidbinding and surgebinding. I think you could then imply that stormform is not surgebinding, and neither are the other forms of power. In addition there are differences between the flying Fused and the KR lashings that I don't think a different power source would account for. It seems like it is a different if related power. That WoB simply says that there isn't a one-to-one correlation between the powers of a given KR order and the corresponding Parshendi form of power. In other words just because Windrunners can do a certain thing, it doesn't mean that this sort of voidbinding (see picture below) is going to be its inverse or have similar powers. I agree the Stormform is not surgebinding, but I think you meant to say voidbinding. What are these differences between the Fused and the KR lashings? Are you talking about how the Fused couldn't change speed as quickly as Szeth & Kaladin? This was actually discussed here: and here: @Beatsmorn I like your post. I favor option #2 from your list as I think that the difference in the bond is related to the way in which the bond is formed as opposed to what the bond achieves. The Parsh-people / Singers form a bond by taking a spren into their gemheart; whereas humans form nahel bonds which grant spren the ability to think in the physical realm. I strongly wonder whether Venli will ever be able to use Timbre as a shardblade. If Timbre had to reside in her gemheart then I would say no, but Venli seems to have taken a voidspren into her gemheart and to have formed a true nahel bond with Timbre. So, she will not be all that useful in establishing the process by which other Singers will bond true spren. Edited November 24, 2017 by KidWayne
KidWayne he/him Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Post removed Edited November 24, 2017 by KidWayne
Trevalion Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 There is something else different about flying using void light, besides differing rates of acceleration. Each time the fused carried someone in flight it was noted that they had to let them hang by their own weight, they had no lashing applied to them to lighten them. I don't think they are "falling sideways" , like flight with the gravitation surge. I listened to the audio book, so it's tough to find the individual passages.
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