Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Hey guys, so after some thinking, I'd like to know what we know about uses of Copper or Bronze in seeing, or hiding non-allomantic usage of investiture. I'm assuming that anything that can be sensed through Bronze Allomancy can be hidden from Bronze Allomancy through the use of Copper Allomancy. However, I'm wondering if anything other than Allomancy can be spotted through the use of Bronze Allomancy and if there are other signs of Investiture use that can be hidden through Copper Allomancy. Examples: - If an Awakener was under the effect of Copper Allomancy, would an Awakener of the 1st Heightening still be able to sense how many breaths he has? - If so, would having a higher Heightening allow you to eventually overcome the Copper Allomancy? - Would Copper Allomancy hide the color aura of an Awakener? - Would you be able to sense the use of AonDor through Bronze Allomancy? - What about Forgery, Dakhor, Sandmastery, or Surgebinding? - Is there a fabrial the would allow you to sense Surgebinding? Would Copper Allomancy counter it? - Would Copper Allomancy negate the effects of a proximity fabrial? - Is there an Aon that would mimic the effects of Bronze Allomancy? Would Copper Allomancy counter it? - Is there an Aon that would mimic the effects of Copper Allomancy? Would it block Bronze Allomancy? - Would these Aons only work on seeing the use of other Aons? Or would they work on other magic systems? I realize that some of these have probably already been answered, though I don't remember seeing any WoBs myself. So if you know of any WoBs on the subject, please post them here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsentKeeper he/him Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) We dont know a lot about how different types of Investiture react so far, so I'll just post the relevant WoBs and let you draw your own conclusions. The only thing we really know for sure is that bronze could be used to detect most other forms of Investiture, with enough skill. Quote INTERVIEW: Dec 6th, 2016 Herald Washington Library Center-AU Tour (Paraphrased) QUESTION Sak, Dusk’s non-native Aviar. That kind of ability is very, very similar to Allomantic electrum, and and his other Aviar is very, very similar to Allomantic copper Is there a...connection between those two, deeper? Or… BRANDON SANDERSON I will RAFO that. It is an intentional reference, but I’m not going to say whether it’s a direct connection to Scadrial magic systems or more that fundamental rules of magic can reproduce one another. We have seen multiple instances of Lightweaving, so...It’s one of those two. That at least narrows it down for you Quote NTERVIEW: Mar 16th, 2012 A "Late-Breaking" Report (Paraphrased) BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED) We asked if it was possible to use bronze to Seek Feruchemy. He said it could be possible. If it were to happen, it was very hard, because the Inquisitors would desperately like to be able to find Feruchemists that way, and it was implied they had not discovered this power. So, it is a freaking hard technique to learn, if possible at all. Quote INTERVIEW: Mar 22nd, 2014 WoR Signing Report - Argent (Verbatim) QUESTION Is there a way to tell between different Investitures? BRANDON SANDERSON [Brandon misunderstood the question a little in the beginning - he thought the question was "can every Shard's magic detect other Investitures?"] Most of the magics have built into them that ability, but I wouldn't say that everyone does. I am trying to remember if all of them have... I lot of them have a power that would allow you to do that, but I don't know if every one of them does. QUESTION [Clarification] BRANDON SANDERSON If you were really good at burning bronze, you could distinguish between different types of Investiture from different planets even. And that sort of skill does exist in other magic systems. ARGENT Is it like a wavelength kind of thing? BRANDON SANDERSON Yea, that's exactly what it is. Quote 16 INTERVIEW: May 3rd, 2016 Random Undated Personalizations(Verbatim) AETHENOTH Can an allomantic bronze burner hear the rhythms on Roshar? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, this is possible. FOOTNOTE book personalization 17th Shard/JordanCon Quote INTERVIEW: Oct 9th, 2015 Shadows of Self - San Francisco QUESTION If an Allomancer found themselves on Nalthis or Roshar, would they be able to use chromium on someone using Stormlight or Breath? BRANDON SANDERSON I am staying away from answering too many questions like that until I start having it happen. But do know that the magics interact... some ways they interact very naturally, some ways, they don’t. One way I’ve released is, you could use bronze on most forms of Investiture to find it. So you can extrapolate that some of these things would work. But not necessarily all. All of them could be made to work Edited October 30, 2017 by Cowmanthethird Removed weird colors and fixed mashed together WoBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: Examples: - If an Awakener was under the effect of Copper Allomancy, would an Awakener of the 1st Heightening still be able to sense how many breaths he has? - If so, would having a higher Heightening allow you to eventually overcome the Copper Allomancy? - Would Copper Allomancy hide the color aura of an Awakener? An Awakener's Breath will be unspottable by Bronze-sense regardless of the Copper, Bronze spots Kinetic Investiture usages and Breath into someone are not. 6 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: - Would you be able to sense the use of AonDor through Bronze Allomancy? - What about Forgery, Dakhor, Sandmastery, or Surgebinding? I see no reason to be impossible, you need just skill to detect them as "magical pulses" 6 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: - Is there a fabrial the would allow you to sense Surgebinding? Would Copper Allomancy counter it? - Would Copper Allomancy negate the effects of a proximity fabrial? No idea but if the Proximity work on a Cognitive level, it's possible it does. 6 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: - Is there an Aon that would mimic the effects of Bronze Allomancy? Would Copper Allomancy counter it? - Is there an Aon that would mimic the effects of Copper Allomancy? Would it block Bronze Allomancy? As far as I know there are not Aon that mimic Bronze or Copper effects, but if there are the right Allomancy would counter it. Of course as the AonDor is fueled by a limitless amount of Investiture. It's possible the "Bronze Aon" will simply pierce whaterver Coppercloud you use or something like that 6 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: - Would these Aons only work on seeing the use of other Aons? Or would they work on other magic systems? The interactions are at Realmatic level, there is no reason to be restricted to other Aons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him Posted October 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, Yata said: An Awakener's Breath will be unspottable by Bronze-sense regardless of the Copper, Bronze spots Kinetic Investiture usages and Breath into someone are not. I wasn't asking about Bronze sensing Breaths. I was asking about Copper masking your breaths. The 1st Heightening allows you to know exactly how much breath someone has. Would a Coppercloud block that? And would the Coppercloud hide the color aura? This isn't about bronze, this is about copper. 48 minutes ago, Yata said: No idea but if the Proximity work on a Cognitive level, it's possible it does. This makes me wonder what it looks like in the CR when you are looking at a Coppercloud that exists in the PR, what the effects of burning Copper in the CR would be, and if burning copper while being in the CR would have an impact on the PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: I wasn't asking about Bronze sensing Breaths. I was asking about Copper masking your breaths. The 1st Heightening allows you to know exactly how much breath someone has. Would a Coppercloud block that? And would the Coppercloud hide the color aura? This isn't about bronze, this is about copper. My bad, I misread your question. Indeed I believe (but here I could be wrong) that Copper doesn't affect the Lifesense at all, Lifesense for the in-world descriptions and Realmatical meaning seems to be Spiritual in nature, as the Breath allows you to be better connected with the sorround and LifeSense gives you simply a way to mesure the amount of Innate Investiture in the living things around you. I will try to see if there are WoB on the topic but I am at work and theoryland is off-limit in this network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 21 hours ago, Yata said: My bad, I misread your question. Indeed I believe (but here I could be wrong) that Copper doesn't affect the Lifesense at all, Lifesense for the in-world descriptions and Realmatical meaning seems to be Spiritual in nature, as the Breath allows you to be better connected with the sorround and LifeSense gives you simply a way to mesure the amount of Innate Investiture in the living things around you. I will try to see if there are WoB on the topic but I am at work and theoryland is off-limit in this network Still misunderstanding. Perfect Lifesense is the perk for being in the 4th Heightening. I'm talking about the 1st Heightening Perk: Aura Recognition. As for Lifesense dodging, I think either storing Identity or Connection (not sure which one it would be) might be enough to block that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: Still misunderstanding. Perfect Lifesense is the perk for being in the 4th Heightening. I'm talking about the 1st Heightening Perk: Aura Recognition. As for Lifesense dodging, I think either storing Identity or Connection (not sure which one it would be) might be enough to block that. I didn't misread this time Perfect Lifesense and Aura Recognition work under the same mechanic, for your question, you could trick the Life Sense with Nicrosil Feruchemy (by WoB) storing your Innate Investiture. Storing Identity will not work (but a Trueself on Nalthis could do insane stuffs with the local Magic, really insane) instead Storing Connection in theory could actually work as you said Edited October 31, 2017 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom he/him Posted November 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 23 hours ago, Yata said: I didn't misread this time Perfect Lifesense and Aura Recognition work under the same mechanic, for your question, you could trick the Life Sense with Nicrosil Feruchemy (by WoB) storing your Innate Investiture. Storing Identity will not work (but a Trueself on Nalthis could do insane stuffs with the local Magic, really insane) instead Storing Connection in theory could actually work as you said Thanks for that. Do we have any WoBs about the aura recognition and color auras? I'm just trying to get why you have this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said: Thanks for that. Do we have any WoBs about the aura recognition and color auras? I'm just trying to get why you have this conclusion. I checked from the sources I have avaliable and I believe I have to step back from some sentences. The Life Sense is definitivelly a Spiritual Sense to me so there my statements hold. The Aura Recognition seems to be a mainly physical stuff, your mind intuitivelly mesures the difference the Biochorma causes...So I believe you could not trick it with neither Copper Allomancy or Durallumin Feruchemy, but still the Nicrosil Feruchemy would work because it suppress the Breath's expression at all. Unluckly I could not find any WoB on the topic so I had to use only in-world knowledge and my Realmatic Knowledge and of course I could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 I don't have any WoB's this time, so have my two cents. On 10/29/2017 at 6:30 PM, Brightlord Maelstrom said: Is there a fabrial the would allow you to sense Surgebinding? Quote Warning Fabrials Warning Fabrials detect things and give notice to the user. Their range depends on the the amount of Stormlight infused into its fabrial-gem.[1] Alerters Alerters are able to detect the presence of objects, feelings, sensations, or phenomenon and warn the user. Alerters utilize heliodors in their design. There are alerters which can detect approaching people, which are able to exclude certain people from detection.[1] The Emotion bracelet is an alerter able to detect different emotions.[3] "phenomenon" is a strange enough quality to be able to detect, but even without it, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a properly tuned Alerter could detect usage of magic. On 10/29/2017 at 6:30 PM, Brightlord Maelstrom said: - Is there an Aon that would mimic the effects of Bronze Allomancy? Would Copper Allomancy counter it? - Is there an Aon that would mimic the effects of Copper Allomancy? Would it block Bronze Allomancy? At present, we don't know of one. However, the level of complexity and scope of options that AonDor presents means that it is entirely possible for there to be an Aon/Aon Strong that can detect/shield the usage of magic. On 10/29/2017 at 6:30 PM, Brightlord Maelstrom said: - If so, would having a higher Heightening allow you to eventually overcome the Copper Allomancy? I don't think so. The Heightenings are so organized because they are at the point where the powers are at their strongest. You don't get any extra resistance to aging or sickness past the 5th Height, so it stands to reason that your ability to detect someone's Biochromatic Aura wont get any stronger as you go beyond the 1st Height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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