Could sliding/pulsing create perpendicularities?

[Metalrift]

I think that it may be possible for a sliding or pulsing with enough power to create a perpendicularity. It seems that Sliding and Pulsing moves energy between Realms, so it seems reasonable to me that if one or the other were to be done powerfully enough a perpendicularity would form. I see this as being slightly similar to how a soothing of sufficient power can bring a hemalurgic construct under a person's control.

 

[Fezzik]

3 hours ago, Metalrift said:

It seems that Sliding and Pulsing moves energy between Realms,

?? Can you perhaps expand this? I'm not sure I understand.

[Metalrift]

When an object enters or leaves a speed bubble, its energy changes. As most of the energy does not seem to go anywhere in the physical realm (there would be clear signs if this were the case which aren't present) the energy must be transferred to one of the other realms.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Metalrift
Grammar

[theRoyalDingus]

But when you think about it, Sharpools (or Perpendicularities) are pools of a shard's power. So if enough power of any shard were released, wouldn't a Perpendicularity form there? This would suggest that if any large number of people were gathered and flared or duralumin-powered any metal, especially the god metals, a perpendicularity would form. This would suggest even more that something might have happened at the end of the Hero of Ages when all the Atium Mistings fought. That power had to go somewhere. The Well of Ascension? Or... somewhere else?

[Yata]

2 hours ago, Metalrift said:

When an object enters or leaves a speed bubble, its energy changes. As most of the energy does not seem to go anywhere in the physical realm (there would be clear signs if this were the case which aren't present) the energy must be transferred to one of the other realms.

Every Allomancer moves Investiture from the Spiritual to the other Realms, in this pulsers/sliders are no special

[Metalrift]

3 minutes ago, Yata said:

Every Allomancer moves Investiture from the Spiritual to the other Realms, in this pulsers/sliders are no special

I understand this, but the speed bubbles seem to create an area where investiture is moved between realms, whereas other forms of allomancy seem to draw investiture into themselves to use the power. So like, steel and iron use investiture to apply a force to a metal object, but cadmium and bendalloy use investiture to form an area where investiture is moved.

[theRoyalDingus]

On 10/6/2017 at 3:28 PM, Metalrift said:

I think that it may be possible for a sliding or pulsing with enough power to create a perpendicularity. It seems that Sliding and Pulsing moves energy between Realms, so it seems reasonable to me that if one or the other were to be done powerfully enough a perpendicularity would form. I see this as being slightly similar to how a soothing of sufficient power can bring a hemalurgic construct under a person's control.

 

You have said that moving energy between realms could cause a perpendicularity.

Coppermind - "A Perpendicularity is a stable junction between the Physical realm and Cognitive Realm. They are used by worldhoppers such as Hoid to go from planet to planet. They are formed through the concentration of Investiture in the Physical and Cognitive Realms. Because of this, they are most commonly found at Shardpools."

I do agree with your idea that sliding and pulsing could cause a perpendicularity, but I do not think that it is unique to time manipulation. Any form of Investure powerful enough could cause a perpendicularity. However, I think that it is slightly impractical to do this. Remember how much power a perpendicularity requires. The Well of Ascension required a thousand years to gather power. There is no way that any allomancer could burn enough metal, flared, or even duralumin fueled, to create enough power to cause a perpendicularity. However, with enough Allomancers working at once... that is why I thought that something might have happened at the battle with so many Atium Mistings burning Atium all at once. The amount of power expended must have been tremendous! Maybe, maybe, they might have caused something to happen there. But I still doubt it. Again, perpendicularities require ridiculous amounts of power.

[Metalrift]

A perpendicularity is not necessarily permanent, nor stable, nor formed only by a high concentration of investiture. There are temporary perpendicularities on Threnody that have "morbid origins" and there is no shard there. It is also vital to note that the surge of transportation can create or enhance perpendicularities, and it does not seem to me that doing so requires vast quantities of investiture.

I do not suggest that the creation of perpendicularities is unique to time manipulation. I do suggest that it is possible for perpendicularities to be created through techniques that cause movement between realms without a need for vast quantities of investiture. 

Again, it is possible for a perpendicularity to form without vast quantities of investiture provided a method of forming one is used.

[Yata]

@Krypton Savant as @Metalrift said:

A perpendicularity could be create with a lot less invesiture than we saw with the Well. Of course we are talking of volatile Perpendicularities...something that could last moments.

We know there are specific magic systems that could create a micro-perpendicularity with a Gem-worth amount of Stormlight for example.

Another note and maybe someone will have to correct the Coppermind's page. A perpendicularity is a spot where an high amount of Investiture bend the Realms but this junction is not only PR-CR, instead it pierces PR-CR-SR.

I still don't believe the Cadmius-Bendalloy's allomancy has a special treatment in creating Perpendicularity in the Metallic Arts.

[Metalrift]

22 minutes ago, Yata said:

I still don't believe the Cadmius-Bendalloy's allomancy has a special treatment in creating Perpendicularity in the Metallic Arts.

My reason for suggesting the idea is that external temporal allomancy can already move energy between realms, so it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to suggest that if enough power were used, eg a duralumin flare, then a path for matter to pass through, ie a perpendicularity, could be formed. 

[Yata]

11 minutes ago, Metalrift said:

My reason for suggesting the idea is that external temporal allomancy can already move energy between realms, so it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to suggest that if enough power were used, eg a duralumin flare, then a path for matter to pass through, ie a perpendicularity, could be formed. 

Yeah I understood your point.

Simply as I already told you, I see it not different from the rest of the Allomancy's powers. You ALWAYS pull energy from the Spiritual and in many cases you use this Investiture to add energy to the Physical Realm (for example every application to Steel/Iron Allomancy).

To be completelly honest, if the amount of Investiture involved is enough to craft a micro-perpendicularity by case (and I am not sure to agree with this) I see more a micro-perpendicularity be crafted when that Investiture is gathered and used in a limited/minimal zone (for example the Allomancy who affect mainly a single spot/being)

I may see the reason you believe time-allomancy could do what you say...Simply I am not of the same opinion of your

[Metalrift]

55 minutes ago, Yata said:

Simply as I already told you, I see it not different from the rest of the Allomancy's powers. You ALWAYS pull energy from the Spiritual and in many cases you use this Investiture to add energy to the Physical Realm (for example every application to Steel/Iron Allomancy).

To be completelly honest, if the amount of Investiture involved is enough to craft a micro-perpendicularity by case (and I am not sure to agree with this) I see more a micro-perpendicularity be crafted when that Investiture is gathered and used in a limited/minimal zone (for example the Allomancy who affect mainly a single spot/being)

I see it as being a matter of what the energy is used for, not the amount of energy used. Steel allomancy pulls energy from the spiritual realm, but it doesn't use it to move energy between realms. By contrast, cadmium allomancy pulls energy from the spiritual realm and uses it to move energy between realms, although clearly other things are also happening. It seems reasonable then to me that perhaps it may be possible that pulsing or sliding with sufficient power at an appropriate location could create a perpendicularity.

I see the amount of investiture used as irrelevant; what matters is what it's used for.

[Yata]

4 minutes ago, Metalrift said:

I see the amount of investiture used as irrelevant; what matters is what it's used for.

If this is what you wanted to prove, I strongly disagree on all the line.

I believed the whole point was to concentrate enough Investiture to reach the "Realms' breaking point" and in that you considerate those powers as far superios to others, it appears I misunderstood you.

[Metalrift]

Just now, Yata said:

I believed the whole point was to concentrate enough Investiture to reach the "Realms' breaking point" and in that you considerate those powers as far superios to others, it appears I misunderstood you.

I never intended to suggest that enough investiture could only be concentrated through cadmium/bendalloy. Nor was I trying to suggest that the concentration of investiture would create the perpendicularity. I certainly don't believe that the surge of transportation creates perpendicularities by concentrating investiture, but I believe that it uses some other means to form a perpendicularity. I was trying to suggest that cadmium and bendalloy could imitate the mechanism used by the surge of transportation. I wasn't trying to suggest that cadmium and bendalloy are better than the other powers, especially with regard to the concentration of investiture. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear, I'm not very good at explaining things.

[theRoyalDingus]

Hmmm. This does make more sense in light of the surge of transportation. I had forgot about that. There are temporary perpendicularities that could be created by the correct use of investiture. 

"At these points, Physical matter, Cognitive thought, and Spiritual essence become one--and a being can slide between Realms."

—From Khriss's essay on the Drominad System

This is how people go between realms. The Surge of Transportation makes the Physical Realm and the Cognitive Realm line up so that people may travel between them. So, does burning Cadmium or Bendalloy do the same thing? Perhaps this is what we should ask.

[Metalrift]

To be honest, having thought about it more I don't think that cadmium/bendalloy can create perpendicularities except under specific conditions. They move energy as a side effect, it isn't the main purpose.

[theRoyalDingus]

Indeed. But what specific conditions are you thinking off? I would be interested to know.