Duke of Lizards she/her Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Greetings! I've been a long-time lurker and I just joined because my sisters and I are collectively developing a theory...more on that later...but, while doing so, I stumbled upon something that I'm not sure anyone has brought up. I figured, since I'm pretty new at this, a far less complicated post would be a good start. If this has been previously discussed, apologies. I was analyzing the illustrations from Navani's notebook, and I was caught by surprise by what could possibly be some strong foreshadowing. The illustration details a fabrial that is used to read emotion (from TWoK). On the page, four examples of the emotions read are listed as follows: 1. Man betrayed by a close friend 2. Woman who has just been proposed to 3. Man who discovered his betrothed lied to him 4. Mother at wedding of only son So, I assume that this is an invention of Navani's and that these are actual readings that she took from people she actually knows. Obviously, each example can be debated a number of ways. (I want to make it perfectly clear that I'm not steadfastly convinced of my interpretation.) The four scenarios, however, could be connected in the sense that they involved the same group of people...specifically a certain three young people who's pairings are hotly debated on this very forum. Thoughts? Discuss... I'm very excited to see what people say. Rip it apart...go! The page in question: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Spicker Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) Wow, definitely something to think about. This is my first time seeing this translation. I guess the big question is when would she have written these notes? Would it have been during or before the time of TWOK, or could it be from afterwards and Brandon just included it early to tease for future events? Also, would these people have been wearing these fabrials already, or did she ask them to wear them during each of these highly emotional times just so she could record their emotions? Both of these choices seem unlikely. Then again, she had to have gotten these readings somehow. Edit: After rereading the bottom, "learning to tell if the bracelet is reading your emotions, your subject's emotions, or the emotions of the people in the next room over" it is possible Navani was always the one wearing it. I am curious about how this would work... So, even though I have reservations about the timing and the means of each recording, Let look at each of these events and possible matches (Spoilers up to Oathbringer): Spoiler 1. Man betrayed by a close friend: Sadeas betraying Dalinar Moash betraying Kaladin A betrayal we have yet to see 2. Woman who has just been proposed to: Navani proposed to by Dalinar Shallan proposed to in the future A proposal from the past 3. Man who discovered his betrothed lied to him: Adolin and Shallan A betrothal in the past, possibly Dalinar and his late wife 4. Mother at wedding of only son: Navani at Elhokars wedding Hesina at Kaladins wedding (unlikely) Any other mothers of only one son that can fit it into this? As you can see, the accuracy of some of these guesses would greatly depend on the time of Navani's notes. Any other ideas? Edited September 7, 2017 by Spicker added guesses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Lizards she/her Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) @SpickerThe note at the bottom of the page leads me to believe that Navani was the one wearing the bracelet while studying said subjects. Edited September 7, 2017 by Duke of Lizards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Spicker Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 @Duke of LizardsYeah i caught that after rereading it to, and added that to my first post when i edited it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessDave Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Very interesting, another possibility(other than Shallan Kaladin and Adolin,i assume you were referring to them) is The Dalinar, shhhhhh story, with the oathbringer new chapters these 4 readings could be very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Lizards she/her Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 36 minutes ago, Spicker said: Wow, definitely something to think about. This is my first time seeing this translation. I guess the big question is when would she have written these notes? Would it have been during or before the time of TWOK, or could it be from afterwards and Brandon just included it early to tease for future events? Also, would these people have been wearing these fabrials already, or did she ask them to wear them during each of these highly emotional times just so she could record their emotions? Both of these choices seem unlikely. Then again, she had to have gotten these readings somehow. Edit: After rereading the bottom, "learning to tell if the bracelet is reading your emotions, your subject's emotions, or the emotions of the people in the next room over" it is possible Navani was always the one wearing it. I am curious about how this would work... So, even though I have reservations about the timing and the means of each recording, Let look at each of these events and possible matches (Spoilers up to Oathbringer): Hide contents 1. Man betrayed by a close friend: Sadeas betraying Dalinar Moash betraying Kaladin A betrayal we have yet to see 2. Woman who has just been proposed to: Navani proposed to by Dalinar Shallan proposed to in the future A proposal from the past 3. Man who discovered his betrothed lied to him: Adolin and Shallan A betrothal in the past, possibly Dalinar and his late wife 4. Mother at wedding of only son: Navani at Elhokars wedding Hesina at Kaladins wedding (unlikely) Any other mothers of only one son that can fit it into this? As you can see, the accuracy of some of these guesses would greatly depend on the time of Navani's notes. Any other ideas? I don't see any dates on the three pages that are from her notebook, so there is no evidence that this page is from future events. You've definitely opened my mind to the possibilities!! I do want to refute one suggestion: the Moash betrayal of Kaladin. It seems that the wearer would have to be in close proximity to the subject and (assuming this is Navani doing the readings) she was no where near them when that occurred. I feel very strongly that #3 (betrothed lies statement) is in reference to Shallan and Adolin. I don't have anything to go on except a gut feeling. That one is the one that initially caught my attention and made me look twice at this page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Lizards she/her Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 BTW, I feel like I should give someone credit for that translation. I found it on The Coppermind and I just looked at the notes for the entry and discovered that some brilliant person that goes by Harakeke took the time to translate that script! My mind is blown. What a genius. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Spicker Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 @Duke of Lizards I definitely agree, the betrayal of a friend definitely seems more likely to be sadeas betraying Dalinar and his army on the plains, especially since it happened in the same book. And Navani is much more likely to have been in a position to record those emotions. I just included that for the sae of thoroughness. I also agree that the betrothal felt like Adolin and Shallan, but that would place the notes as not being written yet in the main storyline (which is possible). If it is supposed to be an even that has already happened, the only one i could think of was Dalinar and his late wife. It was just so long ago that I find it unlikely that she had this fabrial that many years ago. There is always the possibility that not all of these events are important to the main story, and could be random off-scene recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Great find! I agree that the betrothal is aimed at Adolin and Shallan (is this something that will make the Shalladin shippers happy?) The betrayal could be Dalinar and Amaram. Or Dalinar and Adolin, when Dalinar discovers that Adolin killed Sadeas. Wedding of only son... I doubt this is Elhokar, at least not if the others are supposed to be recorded when the books are set. I doubt Navani walks around trying this thing for several years, and if she did, Elhokars wedding should be a very early test, and would probably not be grouped with more recent ones. I don´t know who it could be otherwise though. Maybe Szeth marries someone when he is back in Shinovar. Nale could use a wedding to cheer up a bit. The proposal could be loads of characters. Navani, Shallan, Jasnah or Palona for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harakeke Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) Pssh. The Alethi women's script was pretty straightforward to decipher. Now when someone finally cracks the glyphs, that'll be genius! You may be on to something with the foreshadowing though. Navani's other notebook page from Way of Kings mentions the fact that fabrials work by capturing and imprisoning spren. This is something that isn't stated explicitly in the first two books... minor spoilers: Spoiler and is only revealed to general readers... later. It's possible that we'll look back and realize who Navani was scanning when she tested the emotion fabrial. I think that Navani's notebook pages are roughly contemporaneous with the surrounding narrative. Words of Radiance includes sketches and descriptions of a conjoiner fabrial, and if I recall Navani has a face-to-face conversation about that same device with Dalinar. Edited September 8, 2017 by Harakeke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I'd be inclined to suggest that it's about Elhokar: 1. Man betrayed by a close friend - Roshone 2. Woman who has just been proposed to - Elhokar's wife 3. Man who discovered his betrothed lied to him - Also Elhokar 4. Mother at wedding of only son - Navani Alternatively, Navani herself could probably fit pretty well (Gavilar, Navani, Gavilar, Navani). 3 hours ago, Harakeke said: You may be on to something with the foreshadowing though. Navani's other notebook page from Way of Kings mentions the fact that fabrials work by capturing and imprisoning spren. This is something that isn't stated explicitly in the first two books... minor spoilers: I'm a bit confused by this statement. Are you not counting the Ars Arcanum? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Lizards she/her Posted September 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 16 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: Great find! I agree that the betrothal is aimed at Adolin and Shallan (is this something that will make the Shalladin shippers happy?) @Toaster Retribution Haha! I'm one of those shippers and I'm kind of worried that I'm reading into the four emotion subjects as foreshadowing for what I want to happen between Kaladin and Shallan. I will say, for the sake of argument, that if #3 does refer to Adolin and Shallan, it doesn't necessarily mean that they break up over it...it just means that he feels disgust, love, and fear. GAH! That makes me so sad for him. 9 hours ago, Harakeke said: Pssh. The Alethi women's script was pretty straightforward to decipher. Now when someone finally cracks the glyphs, that'll be genius! @Harakeke You are too humble. That is a great accomplishment! 9 hours ago, Harakeke said: It's possible that we'll look back and realize who Navani was scanning when she tested the emotion fabrial. I think that Navani's notebook pages are roughly contemporaneous with the surrounding narrative. Words of Radiance includes sketches and descriptions of a conjoiner fabrial, and if I recall Navani has a face-to-face conversation about that same device with Dalinar. @Harakeke I agree with all of the above. I don't think Brandon wrote these pages and then coded them just for it to be some fun information. There is something there. 6 hours ago, Seloun said: I'd be inclined to suggest that it's about Elhokar: 1. Man betrayed by a close friend - Roshone 2. Woman who has just been proposed to - Elhokar's wife 3. Man who discovered his betrothed lied to him - Also Elhokar 4. Mother at wedding of only son - Navani @Seloun I like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worldhopper he/him Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 7 hours ago, Seloun said: I'd be inclined to suggest that it's about Elhokar: 1. Man betrayed by a close friend - Roshone 2. Woman who has just been proposed to - Elhokar's wife 3. Man who discovered his betrothed lied to him - Also Elhokar 4. Mother at wedding of only son - Navani Alternatively, Navani herself could probably fit pretty well (Gavilar, Navani, Gavilar, Navani). I'm a bit confused by this statement. Are you not counting the Ars Arcanum? I agree with this set of outcomes, as it seems like a project Navani would have been working on prior to the Everstorm. She is an artifabrian after all and its possible implications into other characters pasts we have yet to see, could be more illuminating than any of the characters current relationship. Especially in regards to Dalinar and Shhhhhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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