To bind a voidspren (and other Spren-related questions)

[Irregular he/him]

So, I was wondering, we know that there were 10 orders of Knights Radiant, every with a corresponding Spren. It seems like those Spren have quite high statuses in their society, but would it be possible to bind another, lower Spren? And would it require some new, specific oaths? More specifically (as you can probably deduct from the title of this post), I was wondering if binding a voidspren would require saying any oaths, and if a Spren can bind to a human contrary to human's will. We know that KR denounced voidbinding so supposedly a human could do this, and Renarin, with his visions of future, might have accidentally (or purposefully, was he envious of Adolin's skill?) bound one. Given that voidspren don't fit the Honor->Cultivation scale, how could other Shard-made spren look like/act? What could be the Oaths for voidspren?

Other thing is, the Spren of Knights Radiant represent ideas that are strong in minds of people of Roshar: honor, truth(and lies), and Stormfather are the things that take significant place in the society. Would it be possible to elevate Spren by changing peoples' minds? Create a society that values creation over all and suddenly creationspren can become sentient?

Edited September 4, 2017 by Irregular

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

It looks like the Parshendi can bond Voidspren, which is what turns them into Voidbringers. Whether this can happen to humans is unknown though, but I would say its possible, because of this WoB:

Quote

QUESTION

Can the Unmade be bonded?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Wow...plausible. Er, possible, I should say.

Now, I know that Unmade and Voidspren are different, but I still think that if an Unmade could bond a human, the Voidspren could too.

I doubt Odium requires oaths for Voidbinding though. Since he most likely mind-controls the Voidbinders in some way, he wouldn't want to limit their power with a level-up system. In gaming terms, I think Honors forces (the KR) plays the game from the beginning, and level-up along the way, while Odiums forces (the Voidbinders) hack the game and starts on the highest level. So I doubt oaths exist at all with Voidbinders.

[Irregular he/him]

39 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I doubt Odium requires oaths for Voidbinding though. Since he most likely mind-controls the Voidbinders in some way, he wouldn't want to limit their power with a level-up system. In gaming terms, I think Honors forces (the KR) plays the game from the beginning, and level-up along the way, while Odiums forces (the Voidbinders) hack the game and starts on the highest level. So I doubt oaths exist at all with Voidbinders.

It seems like it works like that for Parshendi - not just with voidbinding but in general, their power level is flat. The bound Spren though seem to be depended on how the human they bonded with embodies a specific ideal ( as proven by Syl almost dying when Kaladin acted unhonourably ), Odium Spren then might not require oaths from humans, but my intuition is the bonded human would still need to embody some version of hatred, and the more powerful it was, the more power the bond would grant them.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

7 minutes ago, Irregular said:

It seems like it works like that for Parshendi - not just with voidbinding but in general, their power level is flat. The bound Spren though seem to be depended on how the human they bonded with embodies a specific ideal ( as proven by Syl almost dying when Kaladin acted unhonourably ), Odium Spren then might not require oaths from humans, but my intuition is the bonded human would still need to embody some version of hatred, and the more powerful it was, the more power the bond would grant them.

It is an interesting idea, but I wonder how many different versions of hatred you can cone up with...

[StormblessDave]

I don't believe any of the unmade are bonded yet because of 

Spoiler

oathbringer spoilers dalinar vision chapter

As for Renarin being bonded to a voidspren, I'm pretty sure Syl and Pattern would have noticed.

3 hours ago, Irregular said:

Other thing is, the Spren of Knights Radiant represent ideas that are strong in minds of people of Roshar: honor, truth(and lies), and Stormfather are the things that take significant place in the society. Would it be possible to elevate Spren by changing peoples' minds? Create a society that values creation over all and suddenly creationspren can become sentient?

That sounds very interesting, I think we need some wobs on that.

[Irregular he/him]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

It is an interesting idea, but I wonder how many different versions of hatred you can cone up with...

I can think of several 'flavors', they are mostly derived from things that can induce hatred: jealousy, revenge, fear, prejudice etc.

58 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

As for Renarin being bonded to a voidspren, I'm pretty sure Syl and Pattern would have noticed.

I'm not sure, beacuse Edgedancer spoilers :

 

Wyndle thought that Nalan might have a Spren just because he had Skybraker powers, he couldn't directly sense if that was true

Edited September 4, 2017 by Irregular
spelling

[StormblessDave]

1 minute ago, Irregular said:

I'm not sure, beacuse Edgedancer spoilers :

  Reveal hidden contents

Syl seems much smarter than Wyndle, afterall he was just a gardner in the cognitive realm while Syl was an Honorspren so she was a very important spren. She did see Pattern and identified him as a cryptic, she also told Kaladin that she saw some dangerous 'red spren', I believe this indicates the voidspren, so if she saw Renarin bonded to one of these, she would be very suspicious, lol

[Irregular he/him]

4 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

Syl seems much smarter than Wyndle, afterall he was just a gardner in the cognitive realm while Syl was an Honorspren so she was a very important spren. She did see Pattern and identified him as a cryptic, she also told Kaladin that she saw some dangerous 'red spren', I believe this indicates the voidspren, so if she saw Renarin bonded to one of these, she would be very suspicious, lol

But Kaladin didn't start to suspect Shallan of being KR long after he met her, so he (and probably Syl) didn't know Patter was bound to Shallan. In the same way, Syl might see dangerous Spren but doesn't know if they're bound to anyone.

[StormblessDave]

4 minutes ago, Irregular said:

But Kaladin didn't start to suspect Shallan of being KR long after he met her, so he (and probably Syl) didn't know Patter was bound to Shallan. In the same way, Syl might see dangerous Spren but doesn't know if they're bound to anyone.

Fair point, however I find the likelihood of  this occurring to be very low, I'm pretty sure the Stormfather would have known by now otherwise.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

52 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

I don't believe any of the unmade are bonded yet

They can become bonded however.

50 minutes ago, Irregular said:

I can thing of several 'flavors', they are mostly derived from things that can induce hatred: jealousy, revenge, fear, prejudice etc.

Good points. 

54 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

As for Renarin being bonded to a voidspren, I'm pretty sure Syl and Pattern would have noticed.

Syl or Pattern didn't notice any spren around Renarin at all, but he is (supposedly) a Radiant, so I doubt Syl and Pattern are great at sprenspotting. I also think Voidspren are good at hiding.