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Fullborn vs Composite Surgebinder


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Fullborn

  • With all 16 metals (steel,pewter,duralumin,nicrosil,iron,tin,aluminum,chromium,zinc,copper,gold,cadmium,brass,bronze,electrum,bendalloy)
  • Unlimited metals (NO major weaknesses could be seen)
  • Blood lusted
  • Moras off
  • Win by killing or KO

Composite Surgebinder

  • With all the 10 surges (adhesion,gravitation,division,abrasion,progression,illumination,transformation,transportation,cohesion,tension)
  • Unlimited stormlight
  • Blood lusted
  • Morals off
  • Win by killing or KO
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Physically speaking I'd have to go with the Surgebinder purely because: 

- Adhesion can reduce the Fullborn's mobility 

- Gravitation could keep you away from the Fullborn through flight or (if you can catch them) send them flying away, and all the iron pulling in the world won't stop a triple or quadruple lashing of gravity.

- We don't yet know how division works but I would believe you could cause anything to fracture or break therefore just by touching a person you could rip off limbs or if it doesn't work on people at least destroy any weapons they have.

- Any projectile (coin or bullet) would slide off you from you making yourself frictionless

- Considerable healing through progression and Stormlight

- Decoys and illusions through illumination

- Any item you could possibly need through transformation

- Not quite sure how useful transportation would be, maybe evasion by entering Shadesmar?

- Cohesion and Tension can let you deform and change the Fullborn's clothes e.g. making their clothes stiff so that they can't move

- Finally, you have the innate Surgebinder abilities of Spren (Any weapon, instantly) and increased physical abilities (Strength, speed, healing, etc)

Unfortunately, the Fullborn would be completely outmatched, it may be a slightly fairer fight if it were a compounding Mistborn/Feruchemist who can compound luck and healing, but then again we don't know how the Surge interactions Brandon has hinted at would come into play. Therefore with what we currently know now, a Composite Surgebinder has far more versatility and power when it comes to battle that a Full Mistborn.

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Firstly, I believe you mean Mistborn. IIRC, Fullborn refers to Feruchemists that have all the metals. 

 

We know very little about most of the surges, and a good bit about all the metals, so we can't really say how it would go. HOWEVER, the massive healing power granted to a surgebinder is amazingly powerful. Also, assuming this is a radiant(the only surgebinders we know anything of, without using honorblades), they will also have Shards, which will make them basically unstoppable. Which they are anyway, with unlimited healing. 

 

And, going on the off chance you did actually mean Fullborn, still definitely the surgebinder. This fullborn hasn't stored anything... he just has unlimited metals.

Edited by Julio
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Just now, Julio said:

Firstly, I believe you mean Mistborn. IIRC, Fullborn refers to Feruchemists that have all the metals. 

 

We know very little about most of the surges, and a good bit about all the metals, so we can't really say how it would go. HOWEVER, the massive healing power granted to a surgebinder is amazingly powerful. Also, assuming this is a radiant(the only surgebinders we know anything of, without using honorblades), they will also have Shards, which will make them basically unstoppable. Which they are anyway, with unlimited healing. 

No,I actually mean Fullborn...AKA someone like Lord Ruler

By metals I mean this fullborn dude has all 16 types of feruchemic objects

 

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Still say Fullborn. Surges got nothing. Compounding all attributes means moving faster than sight, healing from anything at a much faster rate than Stormlight (Stormlight won't heal you from death lows, gold will) 

And Nicrosil compounding means the ability to strengthened stored allomantic traits to become an exponentially stronger allomancer. 

Surgebinding has got nothing close. 

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Just now, MONARCH said:

No,I actually mean Fullborn...AKA someone like Lord Ruler

By metals I mean this fullborn dude has all 16 types of feruchemic objects

Those don't exist naturally. They can't be "born." But besides that... I still have to go with the Radiant, because Sprenblade and Shardplate. As much as I love Feruchemy, and as powerful as compounding Gold is, it's not really a match for the Godlike powers a super-radiant would have. Though Feruchemical Steel would be dangerous, it can't get past shardplate. 

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Just now, Julio said:

Those don't exist naturally. They can't be "born." But besides that... I still have to go with the Radiant, because Sprenblade and Shardplate. As much as I love Feruchemy, and as powerful as compounding Gold is, it's not really a match for the Godlike powers a super-radiant would have. Though Feruchemical Steel would be dangerous, it can't get past shardplate. 

I know,Rashek got the powers from the Shard,and Fullborn is what we called people with TLR's abilities on this site IIRC.

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8 minutes ago, Julio said:

Ok, yeah, I have to give it to you, Calderis. Especially with the nicrosil compounding... Though it would still be annoying for him to have to get past the shardplate. 

No it wouldn't. Compounded steel means being strong enough to push past their investiture. They're still metal. 

And for simplicity sake, I'll just quote my breakdown of a Fullborn from the other thread. 

On 8/23/2017 at 0:55 PM, Calderis said:

Let's see, they can do everything a Mistborn could (in modern times this would include the Era two metals) 

Plus as you just said not need food, water, air, sleep, could think at speeds that are beyond ridiculous, move at speeds only limited by air resistance (and with Gold healing wouldn't have to worry about dying from friction), heal from almost anything, increase their weight to the point that nothing could push them Etc. Etc. Etc. 

Now add nicrosil compounding into that mix. Store their allomantic ability to steelpushing and burn that to make themselves exponentially stronger Allomancers. 

Modern era Fullborn would be absolutely unstoppable. Why bother with the increased muscle mass from pewter Feruchemy when you can just compound your strength in pewter Allomancy via nicrosil and burn pewter for an all around physical boost that increases everything about you physically without the limitation of muscle mass? 

Fullborn in the modern era would make TLR look like a child fighting in an MMA match.

Edit: they literally had to go. The interactions between the metals would have put Brandon in the situation of having an unstoppable hero, or a villain that required a Shard to take down. 

 

Edited by Calderis
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1 minute ago, Julio said:

Those don't exist naturally. They can't be "born." But besides that... I still have to go with the Radiant, because Sprenblade and Shardplate. As much as I love Feruchemy, and as powerful as compounding Gold is, it's not really a match for the Godlike powers a super-radiant would have. Though Feruchemical Steel would be dangerous, it can't get past shardplate. 

I mean, a nicrosil compounder burning pewter could probably one-shot a shardbearer before they could even think about fighting back

Or he could  drain the shardplate with chromium

Or he could just tap a lot of steel and run himself into it with the speed of a bullet

Or he could jump on him while compounding iron

Or he could use steel to shoot a coin through it with nicrosil compounding

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I was going to bring up the Leecher quality of chromium, but i can't find confirmation on if Chomium can drain other investitures or just allomantic stores. but if it could just drain the infinite stormlight from the surgebinder with your infinite supply of Chomium...

And even if the fullborn did get lashed upwards can't a he store that investiture? (nicrosil again) or would the lashing's investiture not be identified with the fullborn and still identify with the surgebinder?  

 

Hopefully both combatants are smart enough not to allow the other to touch them. In that case the FULLBORN, with better understood ranged powers, will be the winner.

Edited by Tsidqiyah
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7 hours ago, Calderis said:

Still say Fullborn. Surges got nothing. Compounding all attributes means moving faster than sight, healing from anything at a much faster rate than Stormlight (Stormlight won't heal you from death lows, gold will) 

And Nicrosil compounding means the ability to strengthened stored allomantic traits to become an exponentially stronger allomancer. 

Surgebinding has got nothing close. 

I really, REALLY want to vote for the Composite Surgebinder because I love the idea of a Surgebinder with all ten Surges, but the way the scenario was set up means that the Fullborn/Mistborn would win. The scenario demands that the Mistborn/Feruchemist would have unlimited metals, which means that they would be able to use duralumin and Nicrosil full time without exhausting their supplies. So all in all I have to agree with @Calderis

This really isn't a fair fight - the Fullborn can increase their weight, and then do a duralumin powered steel push. This would definitely puncture the Shardplate, and it the shot went through the spine or brain, there would be no healing from that with Stormlight, and because so far as I know the Radiant must be conscious to use the Surge of progression. 

Also the Fullborn could use Feruchemy to increase their weight and musclemass then do an allomantic duralumin pewter punch and just destroy the Radiant. Decreasing friction (abrasion) would not be able to stop the force of this blow. Also, the Radiant has no defense against duralumin/Nicrosil powered emotional allomancy, which would just turn them into a vegetable.

Adding in Feruchemical Zinc and Steel, the Fullborn could move faster than sight and process information much faster than their opponent for the entirety of the fight. And who knows, maybe the Fullborn could use a bunch of Chromium and get a super lucky strike in between the pieces of Plate. The Fullborn has so many powers, and with compounding, it's really not fair to the Surgebinder.

The Radiant could lash the Fullborn upwards, but they could just decrease their weight to nothing until the Stormlight runs out, or compound healing and luck with duralumin and survive the fall back down. And I hear the argument that the Radiant could just soulcast the Fullborn into smoke, but as far as I'm aware - the plausibility of the transformation matters a lot. The same way the stick didn't change for Shallan, the Fullborn identifies to strongly as a them self. There is also the Surge of Division (Dustbringers) which may be able to put the Fullborn down for the count, but I think the healing should be sufficient.

Probably the best case for the Radiant is the Shardblade/Shardplate/Healing argument, but in the end the Radiant would still fall to the sheer OPness of the unlimited metal and metalminds of the Fullborn. I mean, Shardplate is fallible to weapons, objects and even fists (I'm going off the Kaladin/Adolin duel scene for this). Once a section of plate cracks, it only takes one shot from the Fullborn to take out the Radiant. 

The Shardblade could work, but I doubt it. I say this because Surgebinders can heal from Blade severed limbs, and now when you consider how compounded healing is so much stronger than Stormlight healing, and maybe even Progression healing, I'd be willing to bet that the Fullborn could survive from a Shardblade through the spine. Now maybe if there was an Inquisitor who had spikes for all the surges... that could work, but I digress.

What it comes down to is that there was a reason why Brandon made it so there can be no naturally occurring Mistborn and Feruchemists - they are simply too powerful. When a fighter can keep healing compounding gold and Atium until their oppontent dies of old age, you know that they are too OP to be put into a 1 v 1.

Edited by Fleet
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I was wondering, if a fullborn made a suit of armor which could double as a metalmind(s) and filled it using compounding, could the armor act similar to shardplate due to all the investiture? (At least in terms of shardplate's incredible durablity)

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7 hours ago, scyron said:

I was wondering, if a fullborn made a suit of armor which could double as a metalmind(s) and filled it using compounding, could the armor act similar to shardplate due to all the investiture? (At least in terms of shardplate's incredible durablity)

Yes and no. Items full of Investiture are highly resistant to external investiture, but the physical properties of the metal wouldn't change. So in this scenario, the armor would likely be immune to Soulcasting, being Lashed up, or destroyed by Division, but it would be no better than a suit of armor when it comes to physical resistance. A Windrunner couldn't Lash the armor upwards, but they could Lash something like a coin or a table to fly into the armor and damage it. The armor wouldn't be able to be Soulcast, but a skilled Soulcaster might do something like turning the air around it into a solid.

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