+Authweight Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 This theory has two pieces. I think both of them have been partially introduced by others, but I haven't seen the pieces put together in this way yet (if I missed it, I'm sorry, I searched the forums as best I could but it is entirely possible I missed something). Also, I think this theory has some issues, which I will bring up at the end, but I still want to put it out there as an interesting thought (and who knows - maybe someone can help me resolve the issues). First off, I think that the source of Taravangian's variance in capabilities and behavior come from his consciousness moving in some way between the Cognitive and Spiritual realms. When his consciousness is primarily in the cognitive realm, he becomes very logical and rational (in a limited sense) but he loses his spiritual connection to others. According to this WoB, there is nothing inherent to intelligence that makes you less empathetic - this correlation is unique to Taravangian: Quote Zas678 And my other question is about Taravangian. It becomes clear that when he's smart, he's less compassionate, and when he's dumb, he's more compassionate. Brandon Sanderson (Paraphrased) Yeah, he mentions that in his interlude. Zas678 Is that intentional, or is that just how you believe intelligence works? Brandon Sanderson (Parapharased) No, that's intentional. There's plenty of really smart people who are also compassionate, and dumb people who aren't. Zas678 So when Taravangian is smart, his Cognitive aspect is stronger. So when he’s dumb, is his Spiritual aspect stronger? Brandon Sanderson *grins and pulls out a RAFO card* The second part of the theory is, in my opinion, the more interesting piece, although it relies on the first part. I think that on the night of the Diagram, Taravangian was not maximally pulled into the Cognitive Realm. Instead, I think he was pulled in the opposite way into the Spiritual Realm. I think he was pulled in so far that he broke through to the point that he could easily see into the future and look at the web of possibilities spread out before him, similar to what happened in Hero of Ages when Spoiler Elend combined Duralumin with Atium. This would explain why the event seems so spectacularly improbable from the perspective of raw intelligence; it wasn't brought about by intelligence, but instead by genuine visions of the future. Taravangian thinks the Diagram is a product of intelligence because he is biased to assume that intelligence is what matters. It seems like his overall nature is to be cold and calculating, even on a "normal" day. It wouldn't occur to Taravangian that there might be more power in spiritual connection than in raw intelligence. I think this also might explain the overall cryptic, incoherent nature of the Diagram. It wasn't the result of a cold, rational mind, but rather of a rush of foresight. The biggest issue with this theory, IMO is the overall "cold" or "clinical" nature of the messages we've seen. That seems characteristic of his personality when his spiritual connection wanes, not when it is at it's highest. I honestly don't have a good rebuttal for this right now. Maybe at a certain point of spiritual awareness, something like your "true" personality comes out? It could also be that once Taravangian became equally connected to everything, his natural spiritual empathy for particular individuals went away, leading to this apparent coldness. Bonus theory: the language he "invented" is actually an ancient language used by whoever lived in that spot many millennia ago (maybe the Parshendi), and his extreme levels of spiritual connection made it dominate his mind. 4
StormblessDave Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Authweight said: I think that on the night of the Diagram, Taravangian was not maximally pulled into the Cognitive Realm. The theory is great however I believe that he was pulled deep into the cognitive realm instead of the spiritual, it makes more sense to me.
AbsentKeeper he/him Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 I really like this theory, and I wish that I had something useful to add to it, but I don't at the moment. I'm going to have to think about this one.
luluzulu she/her Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 I really like this theory, but personally I'm a big fan of the theory that The Diagram, even though it says to do stuff like keeping Kaladin away from Dalinar to halt his progression as a Radiant, is actually helping to move the progresion of the Radiants forwards by accurately predicting how other Taravangians would react to The Diagram. I just think that it would be an awesome twist if it turns out the Diagram was helping the whole time. I can see how the two theories would work together also, with the trick being constructed by a Spiritual Taravangian who realized that what the Cognitive Taravangian is trying to do is wrong, and used his awesome timeline-sense to craft the trick , which would be double-awesome! Side Note: Cognitive Taravangian seems to want to halt the return of the Radiants, as does Nalan/Darkness. Are they maybe connected in some way, or just working towards similar goals?
Calderis he/him Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 26 minutes ago, Wolly-The-Wuller said: Side Note: Cognitive Taravangian seems to want to halt the return of the Radiants, as does Nalan/Darkness. Are they maybe connected in some way, or just working towards similar goals? Taravangian seems to want the Radiants to be stopped because most would most likely oppose him. If there were Radiants who accepted the Diagram and worked with him, I think he'd accept them without hesitation.
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 I like this. The only thing that doesn't add up is his ruthlessness, which you mentioned, but your proposed explanations for that isn't bad either, except for that I doubt being ruthless and cold is Taravangians true personality. Good job!
aemetha he/him Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 Doesn't he specifically say he couldn't see the future at one point though?
Krandacth Posted August 24, 2017 Posted August 24, 2017 38 minutes ago, aemetha said: Doesn't he specifically say he couldn't see the future at one point though? He also says he doesn't remember anything about that day, so this is almost definitely speculation on his part, likely based on the impossibility (to the rational mind) of seeing the future, and at least a small element of cultural bias against prophecy. As to the theory itself, I really like it! I suggested something similar ages ago, but that was before I was so well versed in Realmatics as the OP. I think the two work really well together though, and mine suggests a reason for the ruthlessness and the alien language: his immersion in the spiritual realm opened him to Cultivation directly. Here's a link to the thread, if you're interested: 1
The One Who Connects he/him Posted September 14, 2017 Posted September 14, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 2:49 AM, aemetha said: Doesn't he specifically say he couldn't see the future at one point though? I don't think he ever says it in the book. However, I know we have a couple WoBs on what he would say about it Quote Q: Taravangian: On his "Special Day" where he created the Diagram, was he actually as smart as he thinks he was, or was something else going on? It seems suspicious that any level of raw intelligence would let him deduce all of that… A: That sure IS suspicious, eh? Let's just say that HE believes it was rational deduction. But other theories are valid. Quote Question If Taravangian made the Diagram, and telling the future is of the Voidbringers, is that a bad sign? Brandon Sanderson It depends on if you're speaking culturally or actually magically. Question Magically, I guess. Brandon Sanderson Because he would claim to you that he did it all with strength of mind and no magical influence other than enhanced mind. That's what he would tell you. And so in that case it would not be—culturally they'd look very weirdly at it, but spiritually he would say it's not of the Voidbringers. 1
aemetha he/him Posted September 14, 2017 Posted September 14, 2017 I double checked, it is said in Words of Radiance in Taravangian's interlude near the end. Quote Taravangian had been supremely brilliant that day, but he had not been able to see the future. 1
Calderis he/him Posted September 14, 2017 Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, aemetha said: I double checked, it is said in Words of Radiance in Taravangian's interlude near the end. Or so he believes. He can't remember the event so that's purely speculation on his part. 2
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