Feruchemic Atium Not End-Neutral?

[+hwiles]

I'm having trouble reconciling the mathematics of storing/tapping feruchemic atium (youth).  I believe that an atium-ferring (not just a compounder, twinborn, or full-feruchemist, any atium-ferring) could greatly extend their lifespan beyond its natural limit, however, I'm not sure if this makes atium-feruchemy fundamentally end-positive (making it distinct from feruchemy that relies on "natural" metals), or just a bizarre type of end-neutral.  I didn't want to bog this post down with a bunch of calculus; I'll type out and share my calculations if there's interest, but otherwise, it's not that integral (see what I did there? ) to the dialog.

If an atium ferring who would naturally die of old age at 71 began storing as much youth as they could at 20-years old (storing 50 years at age 20, 30 years at age 40, and 1 year at age 69) every day until their 70th birthday, they could accumulate approximately 1300 "years" of youth.  If they then began tapping their youth storage (1 year of youth while they're 70, 20 years or youth while they're 90, ect.), they could keep themselves at age 70 for approximately 50 years before running out of feruchemic charge and dying, putting them at 120-ish years old.

Strictly speaking, the Investiture is all coming from their own soul, so it looks like the situation obeys the normal end-neutral laws...However, I feel like almost doubling the number of years they can be alive by manipulating when they store/when they tap undermines the spirit of the end-neutral system.

I'm not sure which side of the fence I should fall on.  Does anyone have some insight into this issue that might make it a little clearer?

[Oversleep]

Atium Feruchemy by itself is end-neutral. However, what is unique that it's the only attribute that changes in time (all the others stay the same). Combination of this two factors makes it unique.

Yes, it's possible to do what you're describing. Keep in mind though that while you'll live all these 100 years (since you started at 20 years old), you'll be 70 years old for all of these 100 years. Not a very pleasant perspective, to turn 70 after being 20.

[+hwiles]

Thanks for the explanation, I just saw that someone else asked nearly this exact same question over in the Theories forum (a few hours before me...); we must have been inspired by the same feruchemy thread.

To anyone who stumbles on this, it's probably best to let this thread die to avoid confusion and redundancy.

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

13 hours ago, hwiles said:

Thanks for the explanation, I just saw that someone else asked nearly this exact same question over in the Theories forum (a few hours before me...); we must have been inspired by the same feruchemy thread.

To anyone who stumbles on this, it's probably best to let this thread die to avoid confusion and redundancy.

I posted the other topic that was similar yesterday, you explained it a lot more consisely than I did though.

What eventually ended up breaking the theory for me is that age isnt the only storable trait that decays over time, memories also do. If only copper stored memory quality instead of specific memories, this would all make sense.

Copper is the real strange one in feruchemy.

[+hwiles]

First, props on thinking demonstrably faster than me with your post. Second, I've come to realize all feruchemy can be end-positive from a strictly energy and human potential perspective. It's an ability normal humans dont possess, and is therefore fundamentally exploitable for extreme personal gain. One of Rasheks followers throws a boulder that was blocking their expedition to the well of ascension by storing strength for a relatively short interval, a feat someone else probably couldn't have duplicated with weeks of time and a pickaxe.

The only thing end-neutral about feruchemy is that Investiture is not normally gained or lost on average. Other gains/losses are possible and fair game since, you know, it's a magic system that exists to benefit the user.

I appreciate the compliment, but I think I was probably being overly pedantic. 

[Yata he/him]

22 hours ago, hwiles said:

First, props on thinking demonstrably faster than me with your post. Second, I've come to realize all feruchemy can be end-positive from a strictly energy and human potential perspective. It's an ability normal humans dont possess, and is therefore fundamentally exploitable for extreme personal gain. One of Rasheks followers throws a boulder that was blocking their expedition to the well of ascension by storing strength for a relatively short interval, a feat someone else probably couldn't have duplicated with weeks of time and a pickaxe.

He could have use some Strenght already in the PewterMind and weaken himself just for a surplus.

Anyway you have to notice that End-positive/Neutral/Negative means a specific thing, the User's Investiture Balance and in this context the Feruchemy is End-Neutral.