Steeldancer he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 So. A while ago I heard this amazing theory that the unmade may be corrupted Dawnshards. Sadly, I found this WoB: Quote Q: Are the Unmade Splinters of Odium? A: Yes. Good guess. Go ahead and fire away. 1
Radiant_Jaeger he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, The Flash said: So. A while ago I heard this amazing theory that the unmade may be corrupted Dawnshards. Sadly, I found this WoB: Go ahead and fire away. Since we are on the topic which unmade do you think are sapient? Edited May 16, 2017 by Radiant_Jaeger
Calderis he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, Radiant_Jaeger said: How does that make them corrupted dawnshards? Also since we are on the topic which unmade do you think are sapient? He's saying that quote breaks his theory and they can't be corrupted dawnshards like he previously thought
Radiant_Jaeger he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Calderis said: He's saying that quote breaks his theory and they can't be corrupted dawnshards like he previously thought Face palm* my bad lol
Kered he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 Has it been specifically said that the Unmade aren't sapient? I always thought of the Unmade as Brandon's version of the Forsaken. Odiums strongest servants and what not.
Calderis he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Kered said: Has it been specifically said that the Unmade aren't sapient? I always thought of the Unmade as Brandon's version of the Forsaken. Odiums strongest servants and what not. I think we've had confirmation, and there's also Jasnah's research in book if I remember right. The jist of it is that not all are Sapient. Some are basically just exerting some kind of force (I imagine the thrill and the death rattles are this type) but we don't know about numbers either way, because "not all" says some of them are. 1
Kered he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Calderis said: I think we've had confirmation, and there's also Jasnah's research in book if I remember right. The jist of it is that not all are Sapient. Some are basically just exerting some kind of force (I imagine the thrill and the death rattles are this type) but we don't know about numbers either way, because "not all" says some of them are. Yeah, I just went a keyword searched "Unmade" on theoryland and you can totally tell that Brandon is being specifically vague and open ended with his answers.
+Extesian he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 Yeah most of them aren't sapient. Quote QUESTION He also signed my WoR and I asked him to write something about the Unmade (this one is quoted word by word. Can't add picture right now) BRANDON SANDERSON "Most of the Unmade are not what we would call sapient. But a few are different..." 1
Kered he/him Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Extesian said: Yeah most of them aren't sapient. I think there is more than meets the eye with that quote. Brandon has said a few times that he plays with some peoples questions, the questions giving him a lot of room to work with. I have a few quibbles with "not what we would call". I'm excited to see how it's going to play out. Also, side question thats been bugging me, are the Unmade and the 10 fools the same? Or has it not been talked about yet?
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 17, 2017 Author Posted May 17, 2017 39 minutes ago, Extesian said: Yeah most of them aren't sapient. Well in one of dalinars flashbacks Nohadon speaks of how yelig-nar (I think it was that one, it was definetly an unmade name) broke into the library and killed all his words-men. That sounds pretty sapient to me
Spoolofwhool Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Flash said: Well in one of dalinars flashbacks Nohadon speaks of how yelig-nar (I think it was that one, it was definetly an unmade name) broke into the library and killed all his words-men. That sounds pretty sapient to me Not really. You could say a lion had broken into your library and killed all your bondsmen. The action alone isn't indicative of sapience. Here's a WoB on the matter though, as Extesian posted above: Quote QUESTION He also signed my WoR and I asked him to write something about the Unmade (this one is quoted word by word. Can't add picture right now) BRANDON SANDERSON "Most of the Unmade are not what we would call sapient. But a few are different..." [Source] Edited May 17, 2017 by Spoolofwhool
Calderis he/him Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 41 minutes ago, Kered said: I think there is more than meets the eye with that quote. Brandon has said a few times that he plays with some peoples questions, the questions giving him a lot of room to work with. I have a few quibbles with "not what we would call". I'm excited to see how it's going to play out. Also, side question thats been bugging me, are the Unmade and the 10 fools the same? Or has it not been talked about yet? There are only 9 unmade. 10 is the relevant number for Roshar the planet. The number for Braize (hence Odium) is 9. 1
Kered he/him Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, Calderis said: There are only 9 unmade. 10 is the relevant number for Roshar the planet. The number for Braize (hence Odium) is 9. Appreciate it.
Ciridae Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Calderis said: There are only 9 unmade. 10 is the relevant number for Roshar the planet. The number for Braize (hence Odium) is 9. Is it nine total or nine big ones? The quote above how most aren't sentient but some are different implies to me that there would be more than nine. I would guess that the large spren we see in the purelake vision that made the thunderclast was one of the nonsentient unmade, along with whatever animated the rockgiant in the Oathbringer cover. These guys seem like they are large enough to be considered unmade yet not the big kind that have an area effect. But I would not be surprised if there are only nine of the big name-dropped ones like Moelach, Yelig-nar, Re-Shepir etc.
Spoolofwhool Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Ciridae said: The quote above how most aren't sentient but some are different implies to me that there would be more than nine. I would guess that the large spren we see in the purelake vision that made the thunderclast was one of the nonsentient unmade, along with whatever animated the rockgiant in the Oathbringer cover. These guys seem like they are large enough to be considered unmade yet not the big kind that have an area effect. The quote above says that most aren't sapient. They are likely all sentient. The thunderclast appears to be clearly sentient by its ability to react against the KR and its squires. Just to clarify, as quick ways to identify the two: Sentience: The ability to have perceive subjectively. Sapience: The ability to reason and apply judgement based on past experience. 1
Calderis he/him Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) @Ciridae the Unmade are the big named ones. A Thunderclast is animated by a voidspren. The Unmade may be responsible for the the voidspren, but they aren't the little spren that animates the thunderclast. So there are only 9 unmade, but a hell of a lot more voidspren. I imagine whatever spren animates thunderclast s is rarer than the one for stormform, it's more similar to those and we saw how many stormform prior to the Everstorm? Edited May 17, 2017 by Calderis
Ciridae Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 @Spoolofwhool Ah, I wasn't sure about the definitions, thank you. So a human is sapient and a squirrel for example is sentient? @Calderis That's is exactly what I assumed to be the case before I saw the WoB in question. I guess it just seemed weird to me that some of these powerful spren whose influence can be felt in large parts of Roshar aren't sapient. So some of the unmade are just doing their thing without any real agenda? They do what they do like a fish swims or a bird flies? That's what the WoB seems to say but it just feels so odd. Someone above made a comparison to the Forsaken, and I guess that's how I always thought of them, but in spren form, instead of some kind of dangerous magical animal.
Calderis he/him Posted May 17, 2017 Posted May 17, 2017 @Ciridae I totally understand. It surprised me too. But like Spool said earlier with his Lion example, just because it's not sapient doesn't mean it's not a very real threat. 1
CaptainRyan he/him Posted May 24, 2017 Posted May 24, 2017 On 5/16/2017 at 4:52 PM, Kered said: Also, side question thats been bugging me, are the Unmade and the 10 fools the same? I always assumed the 10 Fools was either a cultural teaching device based on the antithesis of the Heralds or that it, somehow, reflects an understanding that the 10 Heralds have gone insane and become 10 fools.
Kered he/him Posted May 25, 2017 Posted May 25, 2017 2 hours ago, CaptainRyan said: I always assumed the 10 Fools was either a cultural teaching device based on the antithesis of the Heralds or that it, somehow, reflects an understanding that the 10 Heralds have gone insane and become 10 fools. Yeah, I did some research on theoryland and reddit. From the WoB's, I think the 10 fools represent how insane the Heralds have become.
DustBringer94 he/him Posted May 27, 2017 Posted May 27, 2017 On 5/16/2017 at 0:33 PM, The Flash said: So. A while ago I heard this amazing theory that the unmade may be corrupted Dawnshards. Sadly, I found this WoB: Go ahead and fire away. My main question is that because Brandon is so explicit with his wording, what are the unmade? The very name implies that they used to be something different but were "unmade" to their current form. I find myself drifting back to what Tanavast said to Dalinar in on of the visions. he said something in reference to Odium along the lines of "he must choose a champion. hes still bound to some of the same rules" that makes me think that maybe binding Odium is only one part of the Oathpact.
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