Which cosmere character can you relate to the most? /Edit: Mostly Adolin psychoanalysis chat group

[Taeshi Vei]

4 hours ago, maxal said:

I really wanted the author to push onto this story arc and to explore it.

Don't worry, ten Stormlight books are planned, and then Dragonsteel, and I wonder if Brandon will ever sneak Pinecone the cat in.  He's never done cats, except the mentioning of lions.

[Staphylococcus]

@maxal Yeah, you are right! Adolin never got any praise for, well, anything he did, and here we see Dalinar being so proud of Renarin...(for something he didn't even do or influence in any way.) And probably even the fact alone, that Renarin is a Radiant, or, that EVERYONE around him is a Radiant, will be a problem. See, it's all the people Adolin cares about and is trying to hard to impress are suddenly sharing this big thing together. Kaladin and Shallan, who already have a crush on each other, suddenly have so much more in common. Dalinar finally has something to bond over with Renarin. But it actually might bring Adolin closer to Navani, as they are the only non-radiants in the Kholin family. Even Elhokar saw Cryptics in the mirror.

The fact that Adolin killed Sadeas might be another problem for his over all mental state - first of all, him dealing with the big, dark secret, then everybody (probably, eventually) finding out...I can't even guess how that will change his relationships with other characters, especially Dalinar. But what I know is, that I don't want to see him exiled or executed.

Right now I feel so sorry for him that I just want to give him a big hug. Like, I know he's just a book character but I want to

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Staphylococcus

[Taeshi Vei]

9 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

Even Elhokar saw Cryptics in the mirror.

You sure that it was cryptics?  I may have missed something, but I thought that it was the influence of Odium, with the shadows in the corners of the king's eyes.  Other rulers and characters have had that, I think, and Elokar mentioned that when Kaladin came, the shadows went away.

Am I wrong?

[Staphylococcus]

24 minutes ago, Runeweaver said:

You sure that it was cryptics?  I may have missed something, but I thought that it was the influence of Odium, with the shadows in the corners of the king's eyes.  Other rulers and characters have had that, I think, and Elokar mentioned that when Kaladin came, the shadows went away.

Am I wrong?

Idk, Cryptics was a popular theory and it's not illogical that they left when a honorspren came as those two don't like each other. Plus the description fits Cryptics. l seriously don't know, it can be anything. There is even a theory that Renarin isn't a real radiant and that he is under the influence of Odium

[maxal]

21 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal Yeah, you are right! Adolin never got any praise for, well, anything he did, and here we see Dalinar being so proud of Renarin...(for something he didn't even do or influence in any way.) And probably even the fact alone, that Renarin is a Radiant, or, that EVERYONE around him is a Radiant, will be a problem. See, it's all the people Adolin cares about and is trying to hard to impress are suddenly sharing this big thing together. Kaladin and Shallan, who already have a crush on each other, suddenly have so much more in common. Dalinar finally has something to bond over with Renarin. But it actually might bring Adolin closer to Navani, as they are the only non-radiants in the Kholin family. Even Elhokar saw Cryptics in the mirror.

The fact that Adolin killed Sadeas might be another problem for his over all mental state - first of all, him dealing with the big, dark secret, then everybody (probably, eventually) finding out...I can't even guess how that will change his relationships with other characters, especially Dalinar. But what I know is, that I don't want to see him exiled or executed.

Right now I feel so sorry for him that I just want to give him a big hug. Like, I know he's just a book character but I want to

 

I sometimes get the feeling Dalinar takes Adolin for granted: he is expected to deliver the merchandise, therefore when he does, he barely gets a nod of appreciation. I find it fascinating within their relationship as Dalinar is a fair judge of talent and will praise those who exceeds his expectations: Teleb and Kaladin being prime examples, but his own son? I have wondered at times what Adolin had to do for Dalinar to move out of this superior to subordinate relationship they have developed over the years which many read as respect. While there is respect, I keep on feeling something is missing. Funny enough, yesterday I read someone's post on Tumblr speaking of ho his family made him think of Adolin's as he too felt he never got much attention next to a disabled brother: I suddenly felt reassured I wasn't the only one to read it within the story.

I think it would be very interesting if Brandon were to explore what it means for Adolin, the one who has given everything for those he loves, the one who would give everything for his family, to see how little his effort ended mattering as, in the end, it was all about Radiants and he is just not one of them.

I once said Adolin and Navani might have found each other: she is a mother who's children want to hear nothing of and he is a young man yearning for one.

I am terribly afraid Adolin will be exiled not only from Alethkar, but from the story all together 

11 hours ago, Runeweaver said:

You sure that it was cryptics?  I may have missed something, but I thought that it was the influence of Odium, with the shadows in the corners of the king's eyes.  Other rulers and characters have had that, I think, and Elokar mentioned that when Kaladin came, the shadows went away.

Am I wrong?

We do not know if they truly are Cryptics: most readers assume they are because of their resemblance to those Shallan sees in WoK. The leading theory is Elhokar is on his way to become a Lightweaver. It isn't a theory I personally endorse as I absolutely do not support Elhokar as a Radiant. 

[Staphylococcus]

@maxal yeah...well, that Tumblr post might have been my rant about my parents creeping me out with their sudden feelings  I think I mentioned Adolin in that one. And it was (both posted and later deleted) yesterday.

Yeah, Adolin and Navani definitely found each other. Speaking about Jasnah, we can  see that Navani certainly is the caring, motherly type. And Adolin needs that (even as an adult).

But...but...I don't want to see Adolin exiled from the story! If that happens I'll be seriously sad. Like, I will probably write Mr. Sanderson an angry email or something

 

Edit: oh, and also, there was some necromancy in the thread about Briggs-Myers personality types yesterday so I stumbled upon it and...why doesn't surprise me, in the light of this thread, that you are the same type as Adolin and I'm the exact opposite?

 

Edit no. 2: just to clear things up, I don't support Elhokar becoming a radiant either

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Staphylococcus

[maxal]

16 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal yeah...well, that Tumblr post might have been my rant about my parents creeping me out with their sudden feelings  I think I mentioned Adolin in that one. And it was (both posted and later deleted) yesterday.

Yeah, Adolin and Navani definitely found each other. Speaking about Jasnah, we can  see that Navani certainly is the caring, motherly type. And Adolin needs that (even as an adult).

But...but...I don't want to see Adolin exiled from the story! If that happens I'll be seriously sad. Like, I will probably write Mr. Sanderson an angry email or something

 

Edit: oh, and also, there was some necromancy in the thread about Briggs-Myers personality types yesterday so I stumbled upon it and...why doesn't surprise me, in the light of this thread, that you are the same type as Adolin and I'm the exact opposite?

 

Edit no. 2: just to clear things up, I don't support Elhokar becoming a radiant either

 

 The world is so small! I occasionally sneak onto tumblr as people will sometimes post art I cannot find anywhere and I happened to read your post yesterday. I had no idea you were the same individual, I was so pleased to read it  

Being an adult does not mean you do not need attention: people have ways to try to snatch at what they felt they were missing. Adolin appears to be someone who needed more care/attention then he really got which, combined to a strong desire to please, has turned him into a crowd pleaser. In other words, tell what you want me to be and I will do my best to comply. It is all extremely fascinating.

Hmmm the MBTI... I feel the Internet community has, on average, a bad understanding of what the various types actually means, including myself. Sometimes I test ESFJ, sometimes I test ESTJ, sometimes I test ESFP and if I keep at it, I'll probably test ESTP too. Overall, the ESFJ personality type has terrible reputation over the Internet, saying you belong to this type will basically make everyone consider you are an idiot because there of this common thinking which wants all F-types to be unable to have rational conversations and/or thought. They will also say how all ESFJ are obviously within the care-giving service and would never ever be able to occupy any professional position demanding anything resembling wit and/or intellectual capacity  It is pretty lame and it only serves to highlight how little people comprehend of the working of a F-type.

I don't want to see Adolin being exiled from the story either, but Brandon said he would need to cut down onto the supporting characters within book 4 and 5 in order to give much bigger story arcs to both Eshonai and Szeth. He made it clear he would not cut down on either Kaladin, Shallan nor Dalinar, so guess who's left? I don't know if writing to Brandon will change anything to it. He's pretty set on what he wants to write, how and will playing with which characters: Adolin just doesn't fit anywhere near his priorities, so he's highly likely to be tossed away from the main narrative. 

 

 

[Staphylococcus]

@maxal more like, the cosmere fandom is so small!

No, really, it's tiny. I keep bumping into the same people all over the internet. It's so funny

Of course adults need attention too, I feel like if you didn't get it like a child you can either get used to having less of it (and get creeped out everytime someone tries to hug you) or growing up a people pleaser.

I don't know if I understand the types properly, but based on all the tests I've done and everything I've read I'm an archetypal INTP. I don't think that being any of the types meand being stupid, or not being able to have a rational conversation. I can clearly see that you can lead a very rational conversation!  

It's just, well, that some types of people are better suited for some types of jobs, but definitely aren't limited to them. What you CAN do definitely doesn't depend on your personality. For example I, as a mean, cold, solitary, science-person INTP, work part time in a kindergarden teaching 3 year olds to ride ponies (and I love it!)   

 

And I really don't want this, he can kick out the whole bridge four for what I care, together with Aesudan and other annoying people, just not Adolin, please?!  Now I'm sad  I guess we'll have to wait for Oathbringer to come out, and see. But I think Adolin will play a big part at least in that one even if he's kicked out later...

Edited May 11, 2017 by Staphylococcus

[Taeshi Vei]

I don't think that he'll push Adolin aside.  The readers don't notice him very much, but there's still a lot of story about him between the lines.  I think Brandon will eventually make Adolin's hard life clearer to readers and characters, and If he did get rid of Adolin, it would be like making the promise of "this guy will have a big story" and breaking it.  I've been listening to Writing Excuses, and one thing that Brandon and the others define as important in writing is that you cannot give the readers a tidbit of something and let it die off.  It makes the readers confused.

http://www.writingexcuses.com/

Edited May 11, 2017 by Runeweaver
added link

[Staphylococcus]

2 hours ago, Runeweaver said:

I don't think that he'll push Adolin aside.  The readers don't notice him very much, but there's still a lot of story about him between the lines.  I think Brandon will eventually make Adolin's hard life clearer to readers and characters, and If he did get rid of Adolin, it would be like making the promise of "this guy will have a big story" and breaking it.  I've been listening to Writing Excuses, and one thing that Brandon and the others define as important in writing is that you cannot give the readers a tidbit of something and let it die off.  It makes the readers confused.

http://www.writingexcuses.com/

Well thank you! This is what I've been thinking but I don't know that much about writing fiction so I didn't want to say anything. So, yeah, if he won't solve everythng that's going on with Adolin really fast, he shouldn't die

(But it's Brandon so we never know )

[maxal]

19 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal more like, the cosmere fandom is so small!

No, really, it's tiny. I keep bumping into the same people all over the internet. It's so funny

Of course adults need attention too, I feel like if you didn't get it like a child you can either get used to having less of it (and get creeped out everytime someone tries to hug you) or growing up a people pleaser.

I don't know if I understand the types properly, but based on all the tests I've done and everything I've read I'm an archetypal INTP. I don't think that being any of the types meand being stupid, or not being able to have a rational conversation. I can clearly see that you can lead a very rational conversation!  

It's just, well, that some types of people are better suited for some types of jobs, but definitely aren't limited to them. What you CAN do definitely doesn't depend on your personality. For example I, as a mean, cold, solitary, science-person INTP, work part time in a kindergarden teaching 3 year olds to ride ponies (and I love it!)   

 

And I really don't want this, he can kick out the whole bridge four for what I care, together with Aesudan and other annoying people, just not Adolin, please?!  Now I'm sad  I guess we'll have to wait for Oathbringer to come out, and see. But I think Adolin will play a big part at least in that one even if he's kicked out later...

It isn't so small... If you make the turn of it, there are quite a lot of people. 

I think types can be restrictive: just as ESFJ aren't to solely become care-givers, INTP can perfectly work in a day care. I would die working with 3 years old all day long  I am nowhere near patient enough and despite being very talkative, there are times when I just want to lock myself up with my computer, drink my coffee and not being bothered 

Careful there, I think a lot of readers would disagree with you suggesting Brandon throws Bridge 4 out of the story  I also think it would anger many readers if he were to cut out Adolin, but I am never sure how aware of this Brandon really is.

11 hours ago, Runeweaver said:

I don't think that he'll push Adolin aside.  The readers don't notice him very much, but there's still a lot of story about him between the lines.  I think Brandon will eventually make Adolin's hard life clearer to readers and characters, and If he did get rid of Adolin, it would be like making the promise of "this guy will have a big story" and breaking it.  I've been listening to Writing Excuses, and one thing that Brandon and the others define as important in writing is that you cannot give the readers a tidbit of something and let it die off.  It makes the readers confused.

http://www.writingexcuses.com/

Considering how Adolin has been one of the most popular and frequent topic of discussion within the last three years, I would argue readers did notice him  I agree the ending of WoR suggests a bigger story arc for Adolin: I ran on this assumption for more than a year before I learned the grim truth. Problem is, I think Brandon didn't plan for the readers to catch on Adolin as much as they did. I also think he perhaps thought it was obvious he would never be getting a bigger story arc. I think a lot of things can explain it, but what have been announced, so far, is the fact Adolin has been retrograded from a regular viewpoint character to an occasional one. I do not know how Brandon can reconcile his readers expectations, when it comes to Adolin, with cutting down his story arc from what it previously was (many readers expected more Adolin, not less).

 

[Staphylococcus]

@maxal yes, yes, I'm aware that many people love the bridge four and everything going on with them I just...don't care about it that much.

But you know, I feel like Brandon listens to his readers and that if we complain a lot he might leave Adolin in the story...:D

Or, if he sees that many people like him more than he originally expected

And well, kids and ponies are only a part time job so it's not that bad. I get overwhelmed by people really easily, but doing it only once or twice a week it's not that bad. And I can sit alone with my coffee and computer afterwards it's just a weekly dose of optimism and cuteness for me, to see that the kids actually like me and want to hang around and help me even after their lesson ends...it makes me happy

[maxal]

16 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal yes, yes, I'm aware that many people love the bridge four and everything going on with them I just...don't care about it that much.

But you know, I feel like Brandon listens to his readers and that if we complain a lot he might leave Adolin in the story...:D

Or, if he sees that many people like him more than he originally expected

And well, kids and ponies are only a part time job so it's not that bad. I get overwhelmed by people really easily, but doing it only once or twice a week it's not that bad. And I can sit alone with my coffee and computer afterwards it's just a weekly dose of optimism and cuteness for me, to see that the kids actually like me and want to hang around and help me even after their lesson ends...it makes me happy

What makes you think readers haven't already asked Brandon about Adolin?  

Each time he was prompted onto the subject, I felt his answers were... careful. Yes, he is aware of Adolin's growing popularity, yes, he knows his story arc is one of the most anticipated, but at the same time, he knows what needs to happen for the story to move forward and these events articulate around the characters he has chosen. Each time, I felt while he was acknowledging readers desire to read more of Adolin, he was also warning them not to expect too much as this would fall outside the scope of the books. 

I feel the only ones truly able to influence Brandon would be either his alpha and/or his beta reading teams. If they feel, after reading the book, the Adolin story arc would be too much of a disappointment for the readers, then they might voice it, but then again I do not know how involved any of those individuals is within the discussions we have had within the last three years. It may be they never even read the numerous posts on both the 17th Shard and/or Reddit. It might be they don't personally care about the character and hence won't be sensitive as to how other readers might react to it.

So all in all, it is a big "I don't know what is going to happen", but "my gut feeling is we won't get to read much of Adolin" because "of the plan, always the plan, he isn't in it and said plan isn't flexible enough to work around with another more prominent character".

Kids and ponies, yeah kids are fun: they love you so much and even if you get mad or you behave badly, the next day, it is all forgotten. 

[Staphylococcus]

@maxal well, yeah, I just hope that when at some point in time Adolin was one of those characters who would get a book (he isn't now but I'm pretty sure he was) there still is SOME space for him in the story. And that he and Shallan will still end up together

[Taeshi Vei]

I don't think that Adolin will be a huge part of the archive, I'm just saying that he won't be pushed aside.

[maxal]

6 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal well, yeah, I just hope that when at some point in time Adolin was one of those characters who would get a book (he isn't now but I'm pretty sure he was) there still is SOME space for him in the story. And that he and Shallan will still end up together

I spent more than a year thinking he would be one of the ten as, back then, we still didn't have names for all ten spots. Now we know he isn't getting one nor a focus story. I can only hope Brandon will give him enough space to grow, but as I said, his comments seem to be meant to lower readers expectations, not to generate hype or so is my interpretation. I have seen Brandon try to steer anticipation and hype over some of his characters (Lift, Jasnah and Szeth mostly), but never Adolin.

6 hours ago, Runeweaver said:

I don't think that Adolin will be a huge part of the archive, I'm just saying that he won't be pushed aside.

As I said in another topic, it is always problematic, within any given series, when one side character gets as popular as Adolin, more popular than most of the main protagonists, especially so early within the series. If Brandon is wise, he will give Adolin a bigger role within future books, even if it means making them bigger and/or shortening other arcs he planned to write and/or diminish the arc of less popular protagonists and/or giving Adolin an arc he meant for another character (if possible, I dunno if it can). From my personal perspective, the risk of not addressing the Adolin popularity is having readers disengage themselves and/or having them decide Brandon isn't delivering on his expectations (as the expectations for Adolin's character development are very high) and/or having the readers enjoy the story much less as they aren't interested in most of the characters it focuses on. Magic is swell and everything, but what makes a story are the characters: bet on the wrong ones and you can kill your story, making it a slug as the readers try to punch through chapters which may be interesting on a world-building perspective, but aren't on a character one.

For instance, while I enjoyed reading the Chronicles of the Unhewm Throne, I disliked two out of four of the main protagonists and it made me slug through half the story as those characters I disliked has many page time. Important page time, but they were so unlikable I ended wishing the author had chosen other leads or written them differently or lowered they importance. Looking onto the fantasy community, it seems to be a shared comment. It isn't people didn't like the story, they didn't like the characters within the story with one or two exceptions. It was also one of those cases were the supporting cast was more interesting than the main ones and it dragged the whole story down.

[Staphylococcus]

14 minutes ago, maxal said:

I have seen Brandon try to steer anticipation and hype over some of his characters (Lift, Jasnah and Szeth mostly), but never Adolin.

Oh. That's disappointing  While I love Jasnah and enjoy Lift very much I couldn't care less for Szeth.

15 minutes ago, maxal said:

For instance, while I enjoyed reading the Chronicles of the Unhewm Throne, I disliked two out of four of the main protagonists and it made me slug through half the story as those characters I disliked has many page time. Important page time, but they were so unlikable I ended wishing the author had chosen other leads or written them differently or lowered they importance. Looking onto the fantasy community, it seems to be a shared comment. It isn't people didn't like the story, they didn't like the characters within the story with one or two exceptions. It was also one of those cases were the supporting cast was more interesting than the main ones and it dragged the whole story down.

This was Warbreaker for me! For the first half I was just sooo annoyed with Vivenna's story! She grew into an amazing character towards the end but for the first half I just spent her chapters looking forward to reading about Siri again, not really paying attention to what's going on with Vivenna.

[maxal]

9 minutes ago, Staphylococcus said:

Oh. That's disappointing  While I love Jasnah and enjoy Lift very much I couldn't care less for Szeth.

This was Warbreaker for me! For the first half I was just sooo annoyed with Vivenna's story! She grew into an amazing character towards the end but for the first half I just spent her chapters looking forward to reading about Siri again, not really paying attention to what's going on with Vivenna.

Yeah, I could have said Warbreaker. This is one of those books where the overall story isn't bad, the ending is quite good, but the protagonists are just boring beyond boring. Apart from Siri, I disliked reading most of them. I couldn't stand Vivenna up until the end, but I felt her change happened way too far into the book. I found Lightsong to be boring beyond boring: I can't stand characters having no logic who just act without any plan whatsoever. He just didn't work out for me. Vasher was unsympathetic for most of the story, so all in all, it is a very good case of a good story focusing on the wrong protagonists. Going through the Warbreaker re-read on Tor.com, the feeling seems to be shared as many comments on how the story is slugging, how it is slow moving and how difficult it is to enjoy the Vivenna/Lightsong chapters. It would have been much better had the author re-arranged the story for different leads.

As for Brandon, well, bear in mind these are my personal interpretations. I could be wrong about them. I have however read pretty much everything the author has said and these are my conclusions. I admit I could have drawn the wrong conclusions and/or Brandon could have been purposefully misleading, but my gut feeling tells me he was trying to tamper down the Adolin's fans enthusiasm. If you followed his updates on Reddit, each time he was asked about Adolin, his answers were.... well... I felt they lacked enthusiasm. They were meant to say, yes he knows the character is popular, BUT he needs things to happen and these things do not involve him. 

Oh and he constantly mention Lift, how he loves writing Lift, how dangerous of a character she is because he always wants to write more Lift. He also abundantly comments on Jasnah, even if she had nothing but a very small role so far, he speaks of her as if she has had Kaladin's importance within the story so far. He also often mention how there will be a book focusing on Szeth and this book will have a lot of him... So yeah, he comments a lot on his characters, but he never says anything on Adolin unless directly asked.

Edited May 13, 2017 by maxal

[Staphylococcus]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

Yeah, I could have said Warbreaker. This is one of those books where the overall story isn't bad, the ending is quite good, but the protagonists are just boring beyond boring. Apart from Siri, I disliked reading most of them. I couldn't stand Vivenna up until the end, but I felt her change happened way too far into the book. I found Lightsong to be boring beyond boring: I can't stand characters having no logic who just act without any plan whatsoever. He just didn't work out for me. Vasher was unsympathetic for most of the story, so all in all, it is a very good case of a good story focusing on the wrong protagonists. Going through the Warbreaker re-read on Tor.com, the feeling seems to be shared as many comments on how the story is slugging, how it is slow moving and how difficult it is to enjoy the Vivenna/Lightsong chapters. It would have been much better had the author re-arranged the story for different leads.

As for Brandon, well, bear in mind these are my personal interpretations. I could be wrong about them. I have however read pretty much everything the author has said and these are my conclusions. I admit I could have drawn the wrong conclusions and/or Brandon could have been purposefully misleading, but my gut feeling tells me he was trying to tamper down the Adolin's fans enthusiasm. If you followed his updates on Reddit, each time he was asked about Adolin, his answers were.... well... I felt they lacked enthusiasm. They were meant to say, yes he knows the character is popular, BUT he needs things to happen and these things do not involve him. 

I actually liked Lightsong, most of the time  I, myself sometimes try to throw people off by acting as illogically as possible, just for the fun of it

I liked Blushweaver and their conversations and the descriptions of the court of god. 

I also kind of liked Vasher right from the beginning and I still do, but less so in SA.

I just didn't enjoy Vivenna. At all. 

 

I haven't really looked into reddit, but now I think I really should  But I guess we'll see once Oathbringer is out...

[maxal]

2 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

I actually liked Lightsong, most of the time  I, myself sometimes try to throw people off by acting as illogically as possible, just for the fun of it

I liked Blushweaver and their conversations and the descriptions of the court of god. 

I also kind of liked Vasher right from the beginning and I still do, but less so in SA.

I just didn't enjoy Vivenna. At all. 

 

I haven't really looked into reddit, but now I think I really should  But I guess we'll see once Oathbringer is out...

Reactions to Vivenna's character are, on average, negative. My thoughts are while her behavior is consistent with both her upbringing and her personality, it however made her unsuitable as a main protagonist. In other word, she is a reactive character who spends and entire book refusing to use her agency. The story would have been better if, once on the streets, she had actively decided now was the time to learn how to awaken and would have seek Vasher's help, on her own. Instead, she had to be rescued and to have her agency being shoved down her throat. She gets better, but she remains an unsatisfying character.

On the other hand, Adolin is a very pro-active character with a lot of agency and he is willing to use it. It makes him highly suitable for a main protagonist and completely wasted as a supporting character  Readers will, on average, naturally root for characters having a capacity to influence events, to act and who won't stall into complete inaction. It is also why I am really not convinced of Renarin as a main protagonist as he is a very reactive character unwilling to use what little agency he has. So unless his character dramatically change from now and between the time he becomes a main protagonist, I fear Renarin will end up being another Vivenna: an overall unsatisfying character with a good denouement, but a tad too long in the waiting and not happening through his own decision making.

[Staphylococcus]

@maxal I agree very much. But the reason for Renarin getting his own book and not Adolin is probably that his past is more interesting with him being epileptic, on the autism spectrum and what not. And I feel that a huge part of the cosmere fandom enjoys characters like this and wants to know more about Renarin's childhood. And there's a lot of time until we get to his book, so plenty of oportunity for him to change!

Yes, Adolin is very interesting and proactive but being this typical perfect, privileged high-born kid, he's not that type of person Brandon usually focuses on. Or at least I feel that way... I might be completely wrong with my reasoning

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Staphylococcus said:

@maxal I agree very much. But the reason for Renarin getting his own book and not Adolin is probably that his past is more interesting with him being epileptic, on the autism spectrum and what not. And I feel that a huge part of the cosmere fandom enjoys characters like this and wants to know more about Renarin's childhood. And there's a lot of time until we get to his book, so plenty of oportunity for him to change!

Yes, Adolin is very interesting and proactive but being this typical perfect, privileged high-born kid, he's not that type of person Brandon usually focuses on. Or at least I feel that way... I might be completely wrong with my reasoning

Renarin's character appears more popular then he truly is: if you go on Reddit, you will find he doesn't have as much as support as say on tumblr where he is the most popular. Overall, he doesn't generate nearly as much buzz as Adolin, so I wouldn't say the majority of the readers enjoy his character. On average, I'd say it is the opposite.

All in all, it isn't people dislike his character nor the fact he is autistic, it is more the fact he is too reactive which makes him less interesting to follow as a main protagonist. Also, a lot of people didn't like how he became a Radiant as it just seems something which happened for no valid reasoning they could see. As for the childhood thing, well, I am partial about it. It is true Brandon has crafted his main protagonists in a way which implies their past forms a cohesive story with a beginning, a denouement and an ending revolving around a "secret. It however gets rapidly redundant as we know in advance who is hiding such story and who isn't. I don't particularly find Renarin's past to be overly interesting: I don't find the tribulations of a sick child being spoiled by his father and spending a life time refusing to have agency all that interesting, but other readers strongly disagree. I guess I'll have to read it for myself. The only aspect of Renarin's past I find interesting is his relationship with Adolin, but then again, Adolin's viewpoint would be much more interesting, IMHO. He's the one who was left out, he's the one who was jealous, not Renarin who is generally clueless as to how others react to him. I can only hope, by the time Renarin's focus book arrives, he will have evolved into a more pro-active character with some level of agency.

Renarin is also one of those characters I feel Brandon believes is much more popular than he truly is. He also is a character he seems to particularly enjoy as the autistic trope comes across in nearly everyone of his series (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris). In this aspect, Steris was one very interesting character who totally deserves viewpoints and a much bigger role. Why? She is pro-active, she uses her agency. Renarin doesn't which is why I will always find it odd Brandon wants to write so much of him. I have tried to mentally replace Adolin's viewpoints, in WoR, with Renarin and the result was a story which totally slagged  Just as I feel Vivenna wasn't appropriate as a main protagonist (but would have worked well as a supporting character), I feel Renarin is the same. Protagonists need to have some level of agency, to be willing to use it, to be pro-active, not to basically wait for everything to happen to them or to have things happen through no actions of they.

I agree about Adolin, thought I disagree about him being perfect...  What makes him refreshing is precisely it: he isn't the kind of character Brandon usually focus on which is why he has become more interesting. I have personally grown tired of the under-dog trope, the lowly born character who gets awarded super-powers and rises to the top: I find focusing on the one "normal" guy who is forced to deal with the changing world the so-called heroes have brought upon him so much more interesting and fascinating, but that's just me. 

[Staphylococcus]

24 minutes ago, maxal said:

Renarin's character appears more popular then he truly is: if you go on Reddit, you will find he doesn't have as much as support as say on tumblr where he is the most popular. Overall, he doesn't generate nearly as much buzz as Adolin, so I wouldn't say the majority of the readers enjoy his character. On average, I'd say it is the opposite.

Oh that's nice to hear as my opinion was based mostly on tumblr and fanfiction

25 minutes ago, maxal said:

Renarin is also one of those characters I feel Brandon believes is much more popular than he truly is. He also is a character he seems to particularly enjoy as the autistic trope comes across in nearly everyone of his series (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris). In this aspect, Steris was one very interesting character who totally deserves viewpoints and a much bigger role. Why? She is pro-active, she uses her agency. Renarin doesn't which is why I will always find it odd Brandon wants to write so much of him. I have tried to mentally replace Adolin's viewpoints, in WoR, with Renarin and the result was a story which totally slagged  Just as I feel Vivenna wasn't appropriate as a main protagonist (but would have worked well as a supporting character), I feel Renarin is the same. Protagonists need to have some level of agency, to be willing to use it, to be pro-active, not to basically wait for everything to happen to them or to have things happen through no actions of they.

Steris is AMAZING and I suspect we will get MUCH more of her since she became so popular and, well, I just think the story is pointing that way. There are theories that we'll get a full mistborn by the end of Wax and Wayne and I'm guessing it'll either be her or a child she'll have with Wax. That would be so cute.

28 minutes ago, maxal said:

I agree about Adolin, thought I disagree about him being perfect...  What makes him refreshing is precisely it: he isn't the kind of character Brandon usually focus on which is why he has become more interesting. I have personally grown tired of the under-dog trope, the lowly born character who gets awarded super-powers and rises to the top: I find focusing on the one "normal" guy who is forced to deal with the changing world the so-called heroes have brought upon him so much more interesting and fascinating, but that's just me. 

I meant "perfect" in the stereotypical "rich white kid" way (although Alethi are nowhere near white, it's the dominant race, so...hope you understand what I wanted to say and that I wasn't trying to be racist or anything if it came out that way?), not like really perfect, because he is nowhere near that (but we've discussed that a lot before ) but I don't consider him to be the "normal" guy, since he is, you know, a prince  normal would be more like middle-class guy with a nice job... but I guess we are getting that in Shallan, since she is a poor lighteyes and Kaladin being a darkeyes but from a family that is quite well off for being darkeyes - he's not your typical underdog

 

[maxal]

3 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

Oh that's nice to hear as my opinion was based mostly on tumblr and fanfiction

Fanfiction isn't always representative of whole readership as only a minority will engage into such hobby. A lot of people do not like fanfiction and as such, they will not either read nor write it. If you noticed, the greater majority of written fanfiction focuses on either homosexual and/or bisexual and/or polyamorous relationships while the canon has none of those. This highlights just how marginal fanfiction writing is as, on average, people satisfied with the canon will usually not dig into it. I personally love fanfiction, I always read it even if it does not always please me, I do appreciate people taking time to write it.

Thus, I wouldn't take tumblr nor fanfiction as the reference when it comes to evaluating the fandom's thoughts. The fandom is much broader. Over here, on the Shard, you will find various opinions within percentage which I think should be close to the average readership as we are pretty spread out in terms of age, gender and occupation. In other words, we are very diverse, just as Brandon Sanderson's readers are. On Reddit, you have another crowd which is also diverse. The people who evolve in there typically are less informed and less hard-core fans as the ones you will find here, though there are some pretty knowledgeable and good poster there as well. Reddit will also allow for unpopular opinion to exist more freely: topics on how readers either do not like nor do not understand Renarin have been launched on a regular basis, nowhere near as frequent as topics on Adolin and/or other subjects, but I have seen a few. Then, we should add the Tor.com crew which, on average, tends to be older, demography wise. In it, people tend, on average, to read each character as fairly as possible, even if each individual has personal preferences. 

3 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

Steris is AMAZING and I suspect we will get MUCH more of her since she became so popular and, well, I just think the story is pointing that way. There are theories that we'll get a full mistborn by the end of Wax and Wayne and I'm guessing it'll either be her or a child she'll have with Wax. That would be so cute.

Steris was a master struck of genius. It is one case where her disability is what makes her endearing, refreshing, different in a positive way and I certainly hope to read more of her in the future. I love when different characters are shown to work with their disabilities, to play on their strengths and to find their use despite it. 

4 hours ago, Staphylococcus said:

I meant "perfect" in the stereotypical "rich white kid" way (although Alethi are nowhere near white, it's the dominant race, so...hope you understand what I wanted to say and that I wasn't trying to be racist or anything if it came out that way?), not like really perfect, because he is nowhere near that (but we've discussed that a lot before ) but I don't consider him to be the "normal" guy, since he is, you know, a prince  normal would be more like middle-class guy with a nice job... but I guess we are getting that in Shallan, since she is a poor lighteyes and Kaladin being a darkeyes but from a family that is quite well off for being darkeyes - he's not your typical underdog

Nah. I am not overly sensitive over the whole racist issue. I would also add Adolin is the "whiter" of the male protagonists as he does have a "white" mother. Brandon did confirm he had a lighter skin tone than most Alethi, so your analogy still works, in a weird kind of way as Alethi do not care about skin color. So he would be your "rich lighteyed kid". Also, I don't think Alethi have a middle class: their caste system pretty much prevents people from moving too up onto the ladder, though there is mention of darkeyed merchants (all citizens) being much richer than many old school lighteyed family such as Shallan's.

Kaladin might not be our typical under-dog, but he is presented as such, he thinks as such and he behaves as such, thus he fits the bill.  Mind, I still like Kaladin, but he has grown in a negative way with me in WoR, hopefully Oathbringer can settle it.

[Mestiv]

I think I always related most to Raoden. When reading Elantris, practically every decision he made, I would make the same. I'd like to think that I'm as optimistic and focused on making things better as he is. And I totally would tinker with Aons as he did.