WORDS OF RADIANCE SPOILERS - Adolin's Consequences in "Oathbringer"

[king of nowhere]

13 hours ago, maxal said:

There are new developments within the wonderful world of Adolin  

Brandon actually wrote a flashback sequence for him... Recently. In between somewhere and Germany, he wrote one flashback scene for Adolin. It was very short, but he implies what comes next had too many spoilers for him to read. He nonetheless wrote a flashback for Adolin. For me, this is ground breaking news as I never expected he would ever do it: he seemed completely against it, but it seems he changed his mind. I suspect it might have come out of the beta read, but I have no confirmation.

So, what does this mean? brandon is probably giving in to the huge adolin fandom. or maybe he is just growing attached to the character, or finding he can't get rid of adolin. After all, there must be reasons he made him not die in the first place, and I doubt it's because adolin worldhopped to the real world and threatened him with a shardblade if he did. Or maybe all the rafos were because brandon always had big plans for adolin, and the lack of interest was faked. but anyway, only the ten main characters are getting flashbacks so far. So it could mean brandon is already going wheel of time on us and adding more books (no, just joking there)

Quote

 

We also have this new WoB:

Q: Will Dalinar punish Adolin for killing Sadeas?

A: He doesn’t know. Nobody knows… If he knew, he’d probably will.

I am unsure how to interpret it, the question is about the future but the answer speaks of the present tense. It however rules out any potential speculation where there might have been witness, not that we ever thought there were, but just in case...

As for the exile story arc, despite myself strongly disliking it, I doubt Brandon would go down this way for the simple reason he is already going with it for Szeth: he won't use the same trope for two characters. It seems redundant. Too unlike Brandon. 

 

it's akin to a rafo actually. he tells us that dalinar will punish adolin if he discovered it, but without telling if dalinar will actually do the discovering.

[Fulminato he/him]

9 hours ago, SLNC said:

1) That was true self-defense. Her mother was in the process of killing Shallan.

2) Now, does she really? I remember most of her kisses with Adolin were very forced and she is prone to lying to herself. We'll see how it pans out, but I sense a lot of confusion coming.

For the rest of your arguments: I don't buy the hostile intent argument. It might be so in the army, but we're talking about the whole social construct of Alethkar. They are warriors, not backstabbers. Sure, Sadeas was a traitor and his death will help Dalinars cause, but that doesn't mean Dalinar is happy about how Sadeas died. I can see him forgiving or postponing trial, because of a "state of emergency" or something.

1) but she murder her father, in fact after a failed poison attemp she choke him to death.

2) a crush for sure, and shallan's lie are the main defense mechanism against the painful memory of the past, and never mistake a lie for the truth.

[Darkness he/him]

The Adolin PoV seems to me more like he was remembering a short tidbit about his past, and then using that to highlight a present situation, more than a true 'flashback' chapter. I would call Dalinar's vision an 'Honor flashback sequence' before I called this snippet 'Adolin's flashback'.

but hey, that's just how I reddit

[Guest]

18 hours ago, axcellence said:

Adolin's character gives me the same sense as Ellend Venture.  Just ripe to be handed powers on a platter.  Although, I think it might be using a different mechanism than the standard KR oaths (as I theorized above).

Why are you assuming Adolin's powers, shall they come, would be handled to him on a golden platter? How would Adolin figuring out how to revive his Shardblade, without any guidance from his dead spren, while navigating through his own melt-down and feelings of inadequacy after having witnessed every single individual he loves being made a Radiant all through a rapidly changing world which scares him qualify as "handed down on a platter"?

Also, how is it different than how other Radiants came to have their powers?

How is it easier than Renarin whom was basically given powers simply because he has a disability and has yet to prove how he even qualified for being made a Radiant?

How is it easier than Shallan whom was given a spren as a little child who's greatest achievement was to craft lies (drawings) for her family?

How is it easier than Dalinar whom spend a few years reading a book, lobotomized his brain and merely decided to just do everything as the book says?

How is it easier than Lift whom just asked a boon to the Nightwatcher and walked out of it a Radiant?

How is it easier than Jasnah whom just went through her research, came to a few conclusion because she was doing research and was made a Radiant?

How is Adolin's path, by far the hardest, the longest, the least direct and the most sinuous of them can even be compared to Elend being given powers just for being Vin's husband? I say, if and if Adolin makes it to KR, it won't be through an easy path nor will it be handed to him.

13 hours ago, AngelEy3 said:

This thread has been slightly disappointing to me... More than 3 in 4 of these posts has been to talk about Adolin's "crime" instead of talking about Adolin's "justice." 

Sadeas deserved to die as much as anyone ever has. Where the law runs afoul of the heart, the heart is almost always in the right. Is it murder to snuff out a murderer? Is it "justice" to prosecute the vigilante who just made the world a better place? Adolin accomplished what the law failed to do for so long.... He stopped a treasonous, traitorous, murderous, slave trading, lying, son a slontze from continuing to be such. Full stop. 

As it has been pointed out, most of us agrees Adolin's actions, while illegal, certainly weren't immoral. Very few of us root and/or think he is going down a dark path for it, most of us instead thinking he is heading towards his own personal paths which might lead to KR or not. Also, most of us agree Adolin's actions weren't premeditated, most of us agree it wasn't a "cold blooded murder" and we all know he wasn't under the influence of Odium.

If you dwindle on places such as Reddit, you will fine the overall discourse is very different over there. Most people haven't read the WoB, most people haven't partake into long and deep discussions and thus most people take they easiest paved roads when it comes to analyse the outcome.

Over here, we think it is more interesting to discuss what might happen and how it might played out. Most of us find it more interesting as it has generated an endless string of speculations which is quite fun.

7 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

So, what does this mean? brandon is probably giving in to the huge adolin fandom. or maybe he is just growing attached to the character, or finding he can't get rid of adolin. After all, there must be reasons he made him not die in the first place, and I doubt it's because adolin worldhopped to the real world and threatened him with a shardblade if he did. Or maybe all the rafos were because brandon always had big plans for adolin, and the lack of interest was faked. but anyway, only the ten main characters are getting flashbacks so far. So it could mean brandon is already going wheel of time on us and adding more books (no, just joking there)

it's akin to a rafo actually. he tells us that dalinar will punish adolin if he discovered it, but without telling if dalinar will actually do the discovering.

Brandon Sanderson has never come across as the kind of author who would deliberately change his planned story in order to pander to given percentage of his readership. Had he been this author, he would have written Shallarin as this ship was sailing strong prior to WoR release and we all saw where it went. I thus sincerely doubt he woke one morning and decided he needed to add more Adolin. He has been asked about Adolin on numerous occasions and he has always answered more or less the same thing: yes he knows the character is very popular, yes he is aware many readers do anticipate reading him but in the end he will write what he feels makes up the best story. He has been very consistent within those disheartening (for an Adolin fan) answers.

So what changed?

I have no idea. I suspect it might be the beta read... the timing works. During the WoR beta read, one of the comment which came out was how Sureblood's death wasn't impact-full enough as the Adolin/Sureblood relationship didn't get enough focus for it. Brandon corrected it by adding a few more scenes where we see Adolin and his horse bonding, where we can appreciate how important Sureblood is to Adolin. 

I suspect the same might have happened with the beta read as the flashback is about... Sureblood. In it, we read young Adolin thinking that while the smell of horses was familiar and reassuring, the horses weren't. They were hairy and they had eyes like globes which were too smart for their own good. He would never admit it to anyone, we he once was afraid of horses..... However, when it is a Rhysadium which comes near him, well, that's when the story stops, for now. From it, we can extrapolate Adolin doesn't actually like... horses. He isn't comfortable around them and while he is probably not scared of them anymore, it might be present day Adolin will have issues with them. It might be the beta readers felt they lacked the context, hence Brandon started writing flashbacks for Adolin.

This would be my two cents.

So what does it means? It means Adolin is growing too much into his own character to be tossed away. It also means Brandon is starting to flesh him out and he has realized he might need to write a few past scenes for him, not as much as in a dedicated book, but if he adds a few of them in each book, I'd be extremely pleased.

As for the WoB, yeah you are probably right. Still the wording is weird.

1 hour ago, Darkness said:

The Adolin PoV seems to me more like he was remembering a short tidbit about his past, and then using that to highlight a present situation, more than a true 'flashback' chapter. I would call Dalinar's vision an 'Honor flashback sequence' before I called this snippet 'Adolin's flashback'.

but hey, that's just how I reddit

It most definitely is a flashback. 

Not like the creature before him now.

This is Adolin speaking of right now, not remembering, and the creature, we all guessed it was Sureblood. Also, he sounds much younger than his present day self.

It is thus most definitely a real flashback and I am super glad about it. I am very glad Brandon decided his one flashback character per book might not be optimum which has prompt him to add more: more Kaladin and now Adolin 

[king of nowhere]

37 minutes ago, maxal said:

Not like the creature before him now.

This is Adolin speaking of right now, not remembering, and the creature, we all guessed it was Sureblood. Also, he sounds much younger than his present day self.

It is thus most definitely a real flashback and I am super glad about it. I am very glad Brandon decided his one flashback character per book might not be optimum which has prompt him to add more: more Kaladin and now Adolin 

I don't remember that stuff from wor. he only muses a bit, but in the middle of a battle he can't spend long being distracted. is the flashback posted somewhere on the internet? if so, can i get a link?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't remember that stuff from wor. he only muses a bit, but in the middle of a battle he can't spend long being distracted. is the flashback posted somewhere on the internet? if so, can i get a link?

This is not WoR, this is Oathbringer... That's the flashback sequence I was referencing too or a very short extract from it, the one Brandon read in Germany. He didn't go any further because he said it contained spoilers. It is very, very short, but it truly is a flashback, no doubt there.

It is within the Events signing in Germany thread but here is a transcript. I warn you, it is horribly short. Brandon said it was exactly one page, but it seems too short to be one page, but I am not going to dispute him on that 

Spoiler

 

The scents of horses reminded Adolin of his youth, sweat and manure and hay. Good scents, real scents. He's spent many of these days before he was fully a man on campaign with his father during border skirmishes in Jah Keved.

Adolin had been afraif of the animals back then, though he never admitted it. They were so much faster, so much more intelligent than (Shells?). So alien. Creatures all covered in hair, which made him shiver to touch, with big, glassy eyes.

This had'nt been real horses. For all their pedigree breeding, the horses they (brought) on campaign have just been regular Shin Thoroughbreds.

Expansive, yes, but by definition therefore not priceless.

Not like the creature before him now.

 

The last sentence does seem to refer to Sureblood and it seems to be about Adolin meeting him. I think it was presented to the crowd as a flashback sequence. It is a transcript done out of the few English minutes out of a very long German reading, so they might have gotten a few words wrong, but we get the idea.

So yeah, Adolin used to be afraid of horses and he doesn't seem to have warmed up to them all that much since his youth and yeah, Brandon wrote this in Krakau, so it is fairly new which makes it likely to be in response to the beta readers comments as he got them shortly before. This is however my personal speculation as I have no idea what the beta readers thought of the book nor what they put into their comments, I am just thinking it might be the reason for this additional Adolin scene.

[+Wax he/him]

@maxal when I said on a platter like Ellend - even he had to go through death defying stuff in the well of ascension - My implication was the manufacturing of investiture in Ellend's case.

Szeth's revival is also manufactured in that way.

I am saying Adolin to me is likely to be set up for something.  It might not be KR though.

As BS introduced new character types in Edgedancer, I wonder if Adolin will become something else.

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by axcellence

[I'm_a_Stick he/him]

i think Adolins gonna break with his mental struggle. its just how i imagined...

brandon made him a perfect guy, loved by everyone, most skilled in fighting, everything about him is right until that last part..

after WOR suddenly everything around him is changing, everyone close to him turns out to be radients, the girl he loves, father he admires, friend he trusts, even his sickly brother.. and he starts to think why not me? the most skilled fighter is not so great anymore compared to radients now..

also shallan realize she loves kalladin, and finally dalinar will know about the murder he committed and boom!

 Adolin goes wild and may join some group like Ghostblood, or amaram's group... the most disappointing end??

[+Wax he/him]

On 28/03/2017 at 9:34 PM, I'm_a_Stick said:

i think Adolins gonna break with his mental struggle. its just how i imagined...

brandon made him a perfect guy, loved by everyone, most skilled in fighting, everything about him is right until that last part..

after WOR suddenly everything around him is changing, everyone close to him turns out to be radients, the girl he loves, father he admires, friend he trusts, even his sickly brother.. and he starts to think why not me? the most skilled fighter is not so great anymore compared to radients now..

also shallan realize she loves kalladin, and finally dalinar will know about the murder he committed and boom!

 Adolin goes wild and may join some group like Ghostblood, or amaram's group... the most disappointing end??

Darth Vader incarnation?  

I had Ishar picked for that one after Edgedancer

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by axcellence
Correction on herald's name...

[Guest]

21 hours ago, axcellence said:

@maxal when I said on a platter like Ellend - even he had to go through death defying stuff in the well of ascension - My implication was the manufacturing of investiture in Ellend's case.

Szeth's revival is also manufactured in that way.

I am saying Adolin to me is likely to be set up for something.  It might not be KR though.

As BS introduced new character types in Edgedancer, I wonder if Adolin will become something else.

 

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. I thought you meant he would get powers just because plot demands it or because he is named Kholin. I personally feel, if Brandon decides Adolin's future paths is that of a KR, he'll write it in a non redundant satisfying way. I absolutely trust he will come up with a good story which won't feel like a rabbit being pulled out of a hat.

Now, please someone take note of the place, the date and the time as I have said it : I trust Brandon to write a good Adolin becomes KR story. If he writes this story, I am convinced it will be good. It remains my personal favorite arc for him because I feel it would allow the best and most interesting growth for him. This being said, I obviously do not want Adolin to just bond any spren, I want him to bond his own dead-spren. It is perfect for him. It is a slow-burning arc suitable for his lower focus character, it gives him something special others do not have and it makes his path towards KR not redundant with any other character.

Adolin is the one "normal" character within the cast, he isn't the bringer of change, he isn't the chosen one nor the heroe: he is just this guy who stands a bit too close to the center of the tempest as the world shifts. One of his purposes is to be the voice of normal people, to ask question those not involved into the massive changes occurring might ask. His other more important purpose is to show what happens to those being forced to live through the changes brought forward by the heroes. Adolin, of all people, has the most to lose. He doesn't want this new world Dalinar is trying to create, he wants to follow his father's lead, but this is too much change, too many fluctuation and it is taking too much out of him. Where will he go now? Will he join them? Will he find his way or will he lose himself into the storm doomed to either an early death or an unhappy unfulfilling life?

14 hours ago, I'm_a_Stick said:

i think Adolins gonna break with his mental struggle. its just how i imagined...

brandon made him a perfect guy, loved by everyone, most skilled in fighting, everything about him is right until that last part..

after WOR suddenly everything around him is changing, everyone close to him turns out to be radients, the girl he loves, father he admires, friend he trusts, even his sickly brother.. and he starts to think why not me? the most skilled fighter is not so great anymore compared to radients now..

also shallan realize she loves kalladin, and finally dalinar will know about the murder he committed and boom!

 Adolin goes wild and may join some group like Ghostblood, or amaram's group... the most disappointing end??

We have discussed Adolin potentially joining one of the secret societies. I am personally against as I feel such a move is inconsistent with Adolin's character.

The Son of Honors are currently being led by Amaram or at the very least, he is an important member within their organization. Adolin mistrusts Amaram. He was the first one to believe Kaladin's story. He wasn't even surprised about Kaladin's confessions as he always felt Amaram wasn't the rainbow pissing angel he claimed to be. The Son of Honors are also plotting to provoke a Desolation just so the Heralds could descend on Earth and bath them into their glorious light. Gavilar's other motives was to help his kingdom strengthen under his rule by creating a threat they could better unite to fight. 

Adolin doesn't even begin to endorse those philosophies. He doesn't enjoy warfare and he cares too much about other people's live to waste them for throwing them, on purpose, against a fabricated foe. He hates butcheries. He hates Amaram and he is supporting Kaladin. He doesn't care Kaladin is a Radiant: Kaladin saved him life, thrice and, more importantly he saved Renarin which, to Adolin, means the world. If there is anyone Adolin is glad, happy even, is a Radiant, it is Kaladin. 

No way he would ever ditch his family because super-powers passed him over to join force with Amaram. I don't see it happening.

The Ghostbloods are more tricky as their ultimate motive is unknown, but they killed Jasnah. Or tried to kill. Either way, they have harmed a member of Adolin's family. They are a threat, not a cause to join.

No way he would run away from Dalinar just to fall into the Ghostbloods opening arms: they harm his family and this is the one thing never to do if you want Adolin on your side.

Now obviously nothing is ever impossible, but I feel it would demand quite a bit of writing to turn Adolin into an antagonist to his family. I don't see it, I don't feel it, not with the character we have read so far.