Humpty he/him Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 the interview is on youtube of BS saying that yes Sadeas is DEAD like gone forever not coming back.
Spoolofwhool Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Humpty said: the interview is on youtube of BS saying that yes Sadeas is DEAD like gone forever not coming back. Do you have a link for that?
Humpty he/him Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 No I dont I was watching one of the readings on youtube though. A fan asked him is Sadeas dead dead. He said yes. At the time I didn't think to much about it b/c I didn't think BS would be spending to much time on Alethi internal politics in the future anyway. then I saw this post and thought I would tell you guys what I saw.
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 1:53 AM, Spoolofwhool said: I'll be honest, I don't consider what happened to Szeth to be a revival. Jasnah, yeah, but she isn't major; she's tertiary. I confirm Brandon did confirm Sadeas was dead, dead. He mentioned on several occasions.
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 1:53 AM, Spoolofwhool said: I'll be honest, I don't consider what happened to Szeth to be a revival. Jasnah, yeah, but she isn't major; she's tertiary. See, I saw it as the reverse. Szeth was the true rez. I didnt believe Jasnah was dead for a second. The second her body disappeared, and her "murderers" were surprised to see it gone, I knew she was in Shadesmar. For that reason I never actually connected her return from Shadesmar as a resurrection.
byscuits Posted January 31, 2017 Author Posted January 31, 2017 Still hoping for a specific citation on this. Really curious about the specifics of how BS answered. In the meantime, I'll look through the readings on YouTube and see what I can find. @Humpty Any hunches on which reading to listen to?
Humpty he/him Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 I think it was the one from the byu university bookstore. but I am not for certain
Spoolofwhool Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 6:50 AM, The Ninja Yodeler said: See, I saw it as the reverse. Szeth was the true rez. I didnt believe Jasnah was dead for a second. The second her body disappeared, and her "murderers" were surprised to see it gone, I knew she was in Shadesmar. For that reason I never actually connected her return from Shadesmar as a resurrection. I was referring more in terms of impact on the characters and how I felt about the story. With Jasnah we see her perceived death has a huge impact on the characters over the course of the story, so her being revealed to be alive, while not actually a revival, will essentially be one for the characters, and have the same impact. On the other hand, Szeth wasn't confirmed to be dead by Kaladin, and was basically healed (revived sure) in barely any time at all. Therefore, his "death" will have little to no impact on the story, making his subsequent impact have little to no impact as well.
galendo Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 3:50 AM, The Ninja Yodeler said: See, I saw it as the reverse. Szeth was the true rez. I didnt believe Jasnah was dead for a second. The second her body disappeared, and her "murderers" were surprised to see it gone, I knew she was in Shadesmar. For that reason I never actually connected her return from Shadesmar as a resurrection. I think it has to do with the fact that we saw both of the characters' bodies, dead. Jasnah left a "corpse" for Shallan to find, and we saw Szeths' eyes burn (well, those of us who read the original version did; but the alternative is nearly as final). Now I'm in your boat; I didn't actually believe that Jasnah was dead, either. She was too major a character, with too much potential, to die in a pointless skirmish. So I wasn't much surprised when she came back at the end, either. I think they both count as "resurrections", though. In Jasnah's case, we saw her body (presumably Soulcast, I guess, though I still don't know why she'd bother. There's no real point in letting her enemies think they killed her if they can't follow her through Shadesmar), and there was a reasonably long wait before the reveal that she was alive after all. If we hadn't seen her body, sure, it wouldn't have counted as a resurrection. If the reveal that she'd survived had come sooner -- maybe in the next set of interludes, or at most the set afterward, where IMHO it should have been -- then it wouldn't have counted either. But there was a very intentional play here to make the readers think she was dead. Same thing with Szeth. Everything we've seen so far, everything we've seen hinted at so far, suggests that when your eyes burn, you're dead. We saw him die, in the climax of a final battle, and the readers have no reason at all to suppose that he survived somehow. So he counts as a resurrection as well. The problem, then, is that Brandon has sort of established with these precedents that death doesn't really mean much in the Stormlight Archives. You can't believe a character's dead if you see their body (see Jasnah), and you can believe they're dead if you see them killed (see Szeth). So we get speculation like this about Sadeas because, technically, with enough hoop-jumping like with Jasnah and Szeth, he could be alive. The main problem comes if/when Brandon tries to do a climactic character death, some kind of noble last stand/self-sacrifice (my money's on Dalinar for the first one, and I expect at least two). There will be less gravitas, less emotional impact, than there would be otherwise because, hey, in the Stormlight Archives, death isn't permanent. Just look at Jasnah and Szeth. (Besides, we all know Dalinar can't really be dead. He's coming back next book, right? Right?)
DeTess she/her Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 3 hours ago, galendo said: The main problem comes if/when Brandon tries to do a climactic character death, some kind of noble last stand/self-sacrifice (my money's on Dalinar for the first one, and I expect at least two). There will be less gravitas, less emotional impact, than there would be otherwise because, hey, in the Stormlight Archives, death isn't permanent. Just look at Jasnah and Szeth. (Besides, we all know Dalinar can't really be dead. He's coming back next book, right? Right?) I see your point, but I believe the impact is merely changed from everything up-front to a slower burn, with a second impact when you finally accept the character isn't coming back.
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 7 hours ago, galendo said: I think it has to do with the fact that we saw both of the characters' bodies, dead. Jasnah left a "corpse" for Shallan to find, and we saw Szeths' eyes burn (well, those of us who read the original version did; but the alternative is nearly as final). Now I'm in your boat; I didn't actually believe that Jasnah was dead, either. She was too major a character, with too much potential, to die in a pointless skirmish. So I wasn't much surprised when she came back at the end, either. I think they both count as "resurrections", though. In Jasnah's case, we saw her body (presumably Soulcast, I guess, though I still don't know why she'd bother. There's no real point in letting her enemies think they killed her if they can't follow her through Shadesmar), and there was a reasonably long wait before the reveal that she was alive after all. If we hadn't seen her body, sure, it wouldn't have counted as a resurrection. If the reveal that she'd survived had come sooner -- maybe in the next set of interludes, or at most the set afterward, where IMHO it should have been -- then it wouldn't have counted either. But there was a very intentional play here to make the readers think she was dead. Same thing with Szeth. Everything we've seen so far, everything we've seen hinted at so far, suggests that when your eyes burn, you're dead. We saw him die, in the climax of a final battle, and the readers have no reason at all to suppose that he survived somehow. So he counts as a resurrection as well. The problem, then, is that Brandon has sort of established with these precedents that death doesn't really mean much in the Stormlight Archives. You can't believe a character's dead if you see their body (see Jasnah), and you can believe they're dead if you see them killed (see Szeth). So we get speculation like this about Sadeas because, technically, with enough hoop-jumping like with Jasnah and Szeth, he could be alive. The main problem comes if/when Brandon tries to do a climactic character death, some kind of noble last stand/self-sacrifice (my money's on Dalinar for the first one, and I expect at least two). There will be less gravitas, less emotional impact, than there would be otherwise because, hey, in the Stormlight Archives, death isn't permanent. Just look at Jasnah and Szeth. (Besides, we all know Dalinar can't really be dead. He's coming back next book, right? Right?) I get what you're saying. And I see how it could have less of an impact when there is tht last stand fight and they die, bit Ive just never felt that way about it. Like when I found out a certain character was still running around in the Cognitive Realm, I wasnt let down(granted, it did come after the stormlight books, so it could seem like the 3rd rez I think for the Cosmere). It didnt lessen his AWESOME last stand scene for me . Just like I wasnt let down by Jasnah being alive, and popping out of thin air. I mean we've already seen that death really isnt the end in the cosmere. Idk, maybe Im just weird, but resurrections never really bothered me as long as it fits within the story. 1
Spoolofwhool Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) I'm fairly certain these are the only times we're going to see resurrection. I feel like there's a WoB where he addresses that he doesn't want to give the impression that death is cheap. Next time I see a character die, I'm going to be extremely disappointed if they come back. Also, Brandon has established a hard limit on resurrection in the form of the Beyond, so it can be realistically said that no character is truly gone until we know that has happened to them. On the other hand, we know that any character who has gone to the Beyond is gone for certain. Edited February 1, 2017 by Spoolofwhool
nervousnerd he/him Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Ninja Yodeler said: I get what you're saying. And I see how it could have less of an impact when there is tht last stand fight and they die, bit Ive just never felt that way about it. Like when I found out a certain character was still running around in the Cognitive Realm, I wasnt let down(granted, it did come after the stormlight books, so it could seem like the 3rd rez I think for the Cosmere). It didnt lessen his AWESOME last stand scene for me . Just like I wasnt let down by Jasnah being alive, and popping out of thin air. I mean we've already seen that death really isnt the end in the cosmere. Idk, maybe Im just weird, but resurrections never really bothered me as long as it fits within the story. No, I agree. For me it would only really lessen it if the characters know and believe that they cannot die. I don't want every character to come back but at the same time as long as a character believes that they can die and are willing to for what they believe then it is ok. 1
Spoolofwhool Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 For anyone interested, here's Brandon's opinion on the matter of reviving characters. Quote _0_-O--__-0O_--OO0__ (REDDIT) With Jasnah not being dead when we thought she was dead and Szeth coming back to life; how will you retain tension during future battles if the audience thinks that death might not be the end of someone? BRANDON SANDERSON (REDDIT) I try hard to make sure things like this are well foreshadowed, but it's always a concern as a writer. Basically every book you write, in an action/adventure world, will contain fake outs like this. There's certainly a balance. Gandalf coming back in LOTR worked, and Anakin turning out to be alive Empire Strikes back is a powerful moment--but I feel RJ, for example, may have brought people back too often. Not sure where this balance is for me yet. I know the story I want to tell, though, and I try to leave clues when something like this is going to happen so that it feels less like a fake out and more like an "Aha. I knew it."
Lwarch Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 9:28 PM, Spoolofwhool said: I was referring more in terms of impact on the characters and how I felt about the story. With Jasnah we see her perceived death has a huge impact on the characters over the course of the story, so her being revealed to be alive, while not actually a revival, will essentially be one for the characters, and have the same impact. On the other hand, Szeth wasn't confirmed to be dead by Kaladin, and was basically healed (revived sure) in barely any time at all. Therefore, his "death" will have little to no impact on the story, making his subsequent impact have little to no impact as well. I don't think his rez will have a huge impact in book 3, but I do think it will come back to bite the other characters eventually.
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