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Baseless Theory: Honor and Cultivation Invested Braize and Ashyn As Well


ROSHtaFARian2.0

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Honestly, I don't have a lot of evidence for this, its more of a gut feeling. But lately I've been thinking about the fact that Odium, despite being at least partially Invested in Roshar, is not confined to Roshar itself, but rather the greater Roshar system. And I keep thinking about the legends of the Tranquiline Halls, theories of human migration to Roshar, and the ten gas giants ringing the system, as well as the fact that Brandon has remained vague about whether or not Ashyn has at any point had Shards Invested in it.

And again, I can't point to anything definitive, but I keep coming back to the idea that the overall story of Honor, Cultivation and Odium and their struggle and the Oathpact that binds them encompasses the whole Roshar system, not just Roshar and Braize. I think at some point or another the three Shards have been Invested in all three planets that we know of, and its a whole web of Investiture that keeps Odium confined rather than a singular anchor point. We've speculated at various points that the Tranquiline Halls are a reference to humanity previously being from either Ashyn or Braize before migrating to Roshar, but what if its not just one or the other, what if its both? What if there's been a progression throughout the eons like perhaps the conflict started on Braize before progressing to Ashyn and then from there it progressed to Roshar, and all three Shards have left pieces of them in their wake as they moved from one planet to the next, and its those pieces that form a cage keeping Odium in the star system....perhaps because he couldn't be contained just via one planet. 

I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, but consider Odium's conflict with Honor and Cultivation as a chess match throughout the ages. They plotted their moves across the board that is the greater Roshar system. Envision humanity beginning on Braize, under the watchful eyes of Honor and Cultivation, until Odium arrived, trying to do to them what he'd done to Devotion and Dominion, and had a hand in accomplishing with Ambition. Perhaps his initial zeitgeist turned Braize into a wasteland as Odium attempted to destroy the two Shards, and humanity fled to Ashyn, and the chess match progressed to there. And maybe Honor and Cultivation tried to checkmate him on Ashyn but he eluded them and pressed his assault there, leading to great havoc and destruction across Ashyn, until only a few places were left fertile and most of humanity fled yet again, this time to Roshar, leaving only remnants behind on Ashyn. And then on Roshar, with nowhere left for humanity to run within their reach, Honor sacrificed himself to protect the real king in the game (Cultivation and humanity), making moves such as the Oathpact that left him vulnerable should Odium take the bait and engage on the terms Honor laid out. And when Odium did so, Honor was Splintered but all the moves he and Cultivation had made across the Roshar system were brought to fruition, all the Investiture scattered across planets acted to trap Odium within the greater Roshar system. As long as Cultivation still survives, the game can still be won according to some grand design the two had laid out across the eons, using their pawns (regular Rosharans), their knights (the Knights Radiant), and their bishops and rooks (the Heralds), pitted against Odium's own chess pieces.

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On 12/4/2016 at 6:32 PM, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

Honestly, I don't have a lot of evidence for this, its more of a gut feeling. But lately I've been thinking about the fact that Odium, despite being at least partially Invested in Roshar, is not confined to Roshar itself, but rather the greater Roshar system. And I keep thinking about the legends of the Tranquiline Halls, theories of human migration to Roshar, and the ten gas giants ringing the system, as well as the fact that Brandon has remained vague about whether or not Ashyn has at any point had Shards Invested in it.

And again, I can't point to anything definitive, but I keep coming back to the idea that the overall story of Honor, Cultivation and Odium and their struggle and the Oathpact that binds them encompasses the whole Roshar system, not just Roshar and Braize. I think at some point or another the three Shards have been Invested in all three planets that we know of, and its a whole web of Investiture that keeps Odium confined rather than a singular anchor point. We've speculated at various points that the Tranquiline Halls are a reference to humanity previously being from either Ashyn or Braize before migrating to Roshar, but what if its not just one or the other, what if its both? What if there's been a progression throughout the eons like perhaps the conflict started on Braize before progressing to Ashyn and then from there it progressed to Roshar, and all three Shards have left pieces of them in their wake as they moved from one planet to the next, and its those pieces that form a cage keeping Odium in the star system....perhaps because he couldn't be contained just via one planet. 

I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, but consider Odium's conflict with Honor and Cultivation as a chess match throughout the ages. They plotted their moves across the board that is the greater Roshar system. Envision humanity beginning on Braize, under the watchful eyes of Honor and Cultivation, until Odium arrived, trying to do to them what he'd done to Devotion and Dominion, and had a hand in accomplishing with Ambition. Perhaps his initial zeitgeist turned Braize into a wasteland as Odium attempted to destroy the two Shards, and humanity fled to Ashyn, and the chess match progressed to there. And maybe Honor and Cultivation tried to checkmate him on Ashyn but he eluded them and pressed his assault there, leading to great havoc and destruction across Ashyn, until only a few places were left fertile and most of humanity fled yet again, this time to Roshar, leaving only remnants behind on Ashyn. And then on Roshar, with nowhere left for humanity to run within their reach, Honor sacrificed himself to protect the real king in the game (Cultivation and humanity), making moves such as the Oathpact that left him vulnerable should Odium take the bait and engage on the terms Honor laid out. And when Odium did so, Honor was Splintered but all the moves he and Cultivation had made across the Roshar system were brought to fruition, all the Investiture scattered across planets acted to trap Odium within the greater Roshar system. As long as Cultivation still survives, the game can still be won according to some grand design the two had laid out across the eons, using their pawns (regular Rosharans), their knights (the Knights Radiant), and their bishops and rooks (the Heralds), pitted against Odium's own chess pieces.

The only thing I don't like about this theory is that the "chess match" analogy sounds a lot like what happened in Mistborn, and I think the Stormlight Archive will have the humans solve Roshar's problems without much intervention from their Shards

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On 12/4/2016 at 9:32 PM, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

Honestly, I don't have a lot of evidence for this, its more of a gut feeling. But lately I've been thinking about the fact that Odium, despite being at least partially Invested in Roshar, is not confined to Roshar itself, but rather the greater Roshar system. And I keep thinking about the legends of the Tranquiline Halls, theories of human migration to Roshar, and the ten gas giants ringing the system, as well as the fact that Brandon has remained vague about whether or not Ashyn has at any point had Shards Invested in it.

And again, I can't point to anything definitive, but I keep coming back to the idea that the overall story of Honor, Cultivation and Odium and their struggle and the Oathpact that binds them encompasses the whole Roshar system, not just Roshar and Braize. I think at some point or another the three Shards have been Invested in all three planets that we know of, and its a whole web of Investiture that keeps Odium confined rather than a singular anchor point. We've speculated at various points that the Tranquiline Halls are a reference to humanity previously being from either Ashyn or Braize before migrating to Roshar, but what if its not just one or the other, what if its both? What if there's been a progression throughout the eons like perhaps the conflict started on Braize before progressing to Ashyn and then from there it progressed to Roshar, and all three Shards have left pieces of them in their wake as they moved from one planet to the next, and its those pieces that form a cage keeping Odium in the star system....perhaps because he couldn't be contained just via one planet. 

I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, but consider Odium's conflict with Honor and Cultivation as a chess match throughout the ages. They plotted their moves across the board that is the greater Roshar system. Envision humanity beginning on Braize, under the watchful eyes of Honor and Cultivation, until Odium arrived, trying to do to them what he'd done to Devotion and Dominion, and had a hand in accomplishing with Ambition. Perhaps his initial zeitgeist turned Braize into a wasteland as Odium attempted to destroy the two Shards, and humanity fled to Ashyn, and the chess match progressed to there. And maybe Honor and Cultivation tried to checkmate him on Ashyn but he eluded them and pressed his assault there, leading to great havoc and destruction across Ashyn, until only a few places were left fertile and most of humanity fled yet again, this time to Roshar, leaving only remnants behind on Ashyn. And then on Roshar, with nowhere left for humanity to run within their reach, Honor sacrificed himself to protect the real king in the game (Cultivation and humanity), making moves such as the Oathpact that left him vulnerable should Odium take the bait and engage on the terms Honor laid out. And when Odium did so, Honor was Splintered but all the moves he and Cultivation had made across the Roshar system were brought to fruition, all the Investiture scattered across planets acted to trap Odium within the greater Roshar system. As long as Cultivation still survives, the game can still be won according to some grand design the two had laid out across the eons, using their pawns (regular Rosharans), their knights (the Knights Radiant), and their bishops and rooks (the Heralds), pitted against Odium's own chess pieces.

I like the idea about the heralds a lot. It makes a lot of sense, especially given the suspicious gas giants in arcanum unbounded. It would explain why the heralds seemed so... tired. Perhaps that was another forum, but I'll tie it in here: the heralds agreed to bind odium, but then odium tortured them through the desolations to get out of the oathpact. Until the last desolation... maybe each desolation was caused by the heralds giving up a little bit? And that would explain no desolations happened for such a long time, because stonesinew held firm like in the chapter heading in words of radiance from the diagram.

Edited by The Flash
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