Why the Recreance occurred.

[Betrail]

I wanted to hear how you all would tear this theory I have up. Posted from a phone.

 

Before the Recreance the Knights Radiant has had knights for a long time- All the orders were strong in the fight against the voidbringers. Or were they?

To become a Radiant one must be broken for the spren to bond with. But what would happen if everyone or at least most of a population wanted or wished to become a Radiant? The Radiants wish to help others, so that they themselves don't have to be broken and that the world would be a better place. The people would then try to learn and imitate the Radiants.

In the books we have a scene from the Ardents where if you were to measure a flame spren then it would freeze in that capacity.

What would happen if through time the Radiants hit a point where they could not progress because everyone was doing what was right. It was the epic kingdoms all lands were united against the evils of the world. People wrote down the kindness and the epic stories of the Radiants, but at what point does that become common place, when the oaths they have sworn came down to take a general view to the point that if a Radiant isn't careful would break an oath in a otherwise acceptable time? Take the example from the alloy of law, Maraci she explains her fascination with lights. If everyone is the same pure white light then there is nothing different, it would be the darker lights that would be different. Kaladin even shared this view against Dalinar in the opposite light, as he rescued him. (Every bright eye was evil and hid behind a few good deeds). It was Dalinar who was a bright light which let him gain the trust of Shallan and Kaladin.

Should the land of Roshar hit a point where everyone was this pure white light then there is no room to shine. Only way to let more Radiants to be free of this is to create a stain in everyones memories breaking the "leash" that bound what others thought that the Radiants had to do.

I believe that the spren of the orders were getting to a point that they were freezing through the exact way they gain access to the Radiants. Note I believe the Radiants could still surgebind because they were still bonded and still upheld the oaths they had sworn. The Radiants tried everything to release the spren of the self image that others created. Sizgil mentioned that the most dishonorable weapon is the sword. Which is the reason that the shardblades took form in the shape of a sword. I think even Honor tried to leave room for interpretation when the honor blades were made by having them in a shape of a sword.

Anything out there that tears theory apart? Sadly can't devote time like I would like to and made this post while riding a bus

 

Short theory shorter: Radiant Spren got caught in a limitation of the minds and stories of men.

[1stBondsmith he/him]

WoW! That was both deep and insightful; all while on the Bus!

I like the depth behind the splitting, and I like the explanation of why. I don't feel that this is the direction Brandon went. I think Syl was right when she said that the spren were killed by the knights breaking the bond. The Stormfather's anger against men is an evidence of this. We don't have any information that the spren or their power slowed down or lessened before the Recreance, and in fact were being used in a battle at the exact time it happened. 

now I'll expose myself to ridicule and share my idea. I think that they all killed off their spren to eliminate the bonds that were half of whatever  Honor bound Odium with. Some deal was made in the Oathpact, involving the Heralds, that allowed powers to the Radiants, and their enemies. I still keep the belief that the KR did it nobly to end the invasions by Oduim's forces. I think they may have been lied to, or they were right, and having the powers back to men allows Odium to do the same with his forces. I think it was awful to spren and was intended to save mankind.

Edited October 6, 2016 by 1stBondsmith

[Betrail]

Well, when Syl said the spren were killed, that is when they decided to create the "stain" in memory so that future Knights would have more room to grow. I imagine that all the knights grew up with the ideals already set. Yes individual they may be different, but the concepts  would have been set in stone... I would assume that at some point the ideals would be shared with the populous and blam there is your next ideal you have to swear. Yes, they could surge bind in battle but they were still upholding their oaths, the moment they put down their swords and plate, they committed and broke their oath.

I think they were caught in a trap of their own creation. They could anger the spren, but have hope, or they could betray men and slowly be crushed by the same thoughts that now destroy Alathkar, where the Ardents there all give the truth in a special way. They grew from having a noble purpose to something that was terrible.

 

In allowing the orders to reform without guidance, they then allowed the new Knights to grow and reach the boundaries of their oaths. Sorry I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean... I'm no writer

 

 

Ah, my thoughts is for more internal without an external force. Did the Knights know of the oathpact and what the terms were? If so I could believe that as part of it.  

Edited October 6, 2016 by Betrail

[1stBondsmith he/him]

One of the Diagram writings said to keep back the information that destroyed the Radiants, as it could be used again in the future. I think this was the knowledge of the Oathpact dilemma that the old Radiants decided needed the Receance to resolve. No matter how many times they beat Odium, as long as the powers were used by them, he could as well. Really just my speculation, but I like it.

[DeTess she/her]

17 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

One of the Diagram writings said to keep back the information that destroyed the Radiants, as it could be used again in the future. I think this was the knowledge of the Oathpact dilemma that the old Radiants decided needed the Receance to resolve. No matter how many times they beat Odium, as long as the powers were used by them, he could as well. Really just my speculation, but I like it.

This is also what Nalan seems to believe, if his reasoning is anything to go by (If I hunt down these Radiants, a new desolation will be prevented). 

[1stBondsmith he/him]

Wouldn't it be just like Brandon to have this information be only a half truth, thus, the KR did what they thought was best, but what would eventually lead to Oduim's victory. I lie given to the world early, acted upon, and then, mellenia later, the truth comes out (in book 9 or 10!).

[manukos he/him]

i dont know ,both theories interesting as they may be seem  to only cover part of the event and still leave some things unanswered 

i dont have a theory of my own but i would like to present some questinons about the recreanse that each theory strive to answer
 

1) why did they make a show out of it?

2) why does no one know what rly happened ? (they may discover smt in the tower in the 3d book )

3) why did the bonds return if it is only for the same thing to happen again ?

4) why did the bonds needed to be shatered and they couldnt like chill in their crib away from everyone 

i dont mean to critisize ur ideas nor dectate how a theory should be i am only curius about the  beforementioned points 

[1stBondsmith he/him]

Good Questions:

2 minutes ago, harambe said:

1) why did they make a show out of it?

If only one knight did this, or only separately, it is only hurting their own spren. If it is done together (alright everyone, on three...) all are part of it and they make sure everyone does it. This could also be related to the subterfuge an order continued at the expense of the others (theory that there is at least some order members left discussed on other threads).

 

5 minutes ago, harambe said:

2) why does no one know what rly happened ? (they may discover smt in the tower in the 3d book )

How many of us know what happened thousands of years ago? This happens in all books with long histories, and Brandon delights in making these mis-information that everyone believes in his stories. Also, then the Ardents took over, they did not want the truth to come out, and rewrote the histories. This is according to Jasnah's research and notes. (Also a but of the Ars Arcanum). I think either the Stone Shamans, Nalan, or someone in the secret groups does know. And It would appears that Taravangian knows.

8 minutes ago, harambe said:

3) why did the bonds return if it is only for the same thing to happen again ?

No clue here. We need to know lots more about the Oathpact and Oduim's binding. But we do know from Syl and Glys that the spren that are coming to bond did so without permission from the ruling (Spren). -"not supposed to come here", -committee decided to send me", etc. Something has changed, and I think things are breaking down. Probalby has to do with Taln's return and his giving into madness from the torture for so long.

 

11 minutes ago, harambe said:

4) why did the bonds needed to be shatered and they couldnt like chill in their crib away from everyone

No idea. We haven't been given enough clues yet.

[Betrail]

For my side of the theory:

1.) They wanted EVERYONE to know that they abandoned them, and that way the Knights would have a spotty slate for new Radiants to mark clean.

2.) Not.... sure if I understand what your saying. A.) It has been what 1000 years since the Recreance? B.) A Knight wouldn't tell other people because they were wanting people to dislike them.

3.) Well, the voidbringers are coming back so the spren have to get over their fear/anger if they want to continue on. Aside from that the Stormfather may have had instructions to keep the spren back until it is time to re-release the Knights. Giving time for the good stories to disappear and leave only bitterness as a thought towards the Radiants.

4.) As stated in the original post and point 3, I feel like they needed to do something horribly un-honorable, such as desertion? As has been mentioned multiple times desertion is like the worse felony you could do. A Knight doing that would be unheard of.