Shard Total

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

So, with the release of the Way of Kings, we have more tidbits on the Shards!  So let's run through our total.

Ruin - Ati (Mistborn)

Preservation - Leras (Mistborn)

Endowment (Warbreaker)

Austre (Warbreaker)

Odium (Stormlight Archive)

The Almighty (Stormlight Archive)

Cultivation (namedropped in Stormlight Archive)

Rayse (namedropped in Stormlight Archive; has appeared, briefly, behind the scenes of Elantris)

Aona (namdropped in Stormlight Archive)

Skai (namedropped in Stormlight Archive)

Bavadin (namedropped in Stormlight Archive)

11, and these are just the ones with names of some sort, though some of these may overlap.

This brings us to the tip Brandon gave us a while ago about Shards we'd seen apart from Ati and Leras.

IIRC, it's one who we've encountered directly, two whose influence we've seen and one who WAS there but wasn't there at the time of the book.  Would those who remember this better be willing to correct me?  IMO, the first one is either Skai or Aona, the the second and third are Austre or Endowment and Skai or Aona, and the fourth is Rayse after his visit to Sel.  Read on for explanations.

I'm of the opinion that Bavadin, Rayse's associate according to the epigraph to Chapter 23 of WoK, is Odium.  Why?  Because the obvious choice for Odium would be Rayse and Brandon wouldn't make it that obvious.  It also makes the most dangerous Shard one we haven't seen yet.

The epigraphs also refer to Rayse's visit to Sel, the setting of Elantris, (WoK Chapter 21 epigraph).  The next epigraph states that Aona and Skai are dead.  I'm thinking that these two are the Shards on Sel.

Thoughts and opinions on this?  Things that I missed or got wrong?  This is the place for it!

[Rubix]

Your number is off... I recall it being closer to 8 total, but I'll have to look into it. More details in our Way of Kings interview with Brandon, as well.

[Shivertongue]

Unless I'm wrong, there was only one shard in Warbreaker.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

Well, I just listed names, if any of the ones I listed overlap, it hasn't been confirmed yet.  This is what we're working with.

[Chaos]

My count is at eight. It's been stated that Endowment is the only Shard on Nalthis (Warbreaker world). In the interview we have which will be posted soon (this is entirely my fault, stupid classes), Brandon confirmed Cultivation is a Shard on Roshar.

We know a lot more about Shards now. My personal opinion is that we now know of all four Shards that Brandon talked about in the Hero of Ages Spoiler Thread, which he said at that time, there were four Shards other than Ruin and Preservation. Two we directly interacted with, one we've seen its influence, and the last one we haven't met itself, but have seen its power.

Personally, I believe those are, 1. Endowment, 2. Aona (the similarity to AonDor is too obvious), 3. Odium, 4. Skai.

Most of the interesting stuff happened on Elantris.

So, let's recount, using the person's name as well as their Shard's purpose.

Ati - Ruin (Scadrial)

Leras - Preservation (Scadrial)

[unknown] - Endowment (Nalthis)

Rayse - Odium (Roshar)

The Almighty (Roshar)

[unknown] - Cultivation (Roshar)

Aona - [unknown] (Sel)

Skai - [unknown] (Sel)

Bavadin - [unknown] (Unknown)

So, looks like nine.

Also, I strongly believe Rayse is Odium. It's pretty darn clear that Odium is the most dangerous (he's the Enemy that the Almighty talks about), and the Part Two epigraphs directly say Rayse holds the most dangerous Shard of them all. We have no reason to not believe the epigraph author, who probably knows about Shards than anyone else in the cosmere.

Plus, we don't know that Bavadin is actually working with Rayse. It wouldn't surprise me, but it also wouldn't surprise me if Rayse killed Bavadin, too.

Looks to me like, of the sixteen Shards, we know of nine, and one (Bavadin) is not yet attached to a world that's been published.

My theory: The name of the Shard related to "The Almighty" is Unity. I have no basis for this, but the whispers of "Unite them" were too similar to Ruin's "kill them" to Zane.

[Zas678]

I agree with Chaos about Aona. It seems that it is very similar to Aon. Skai may be the real name for Jaddeth, but it seems familiar...

Oh! Also, Sel is the Elantris world.

[Chaos]

The word "Skaze" appears in Elantris exactly once, so that may be where you felt it was familiar.

[FirstSelector]

I think that Austere holds the Endowment Shard (much as Ati held Ruin), based on the in-text references to him in Warbreaker.  Furthermore, as Comatose pointed out on TWG, I believe that the flowers that produce the dye are his physical embodiment (much like atium for Ruin).  They grow in one place and are valuable enough to control an entire economy (or world).

Following Brandon's assertion that one of the Shards pre-WoK has left the scene, I think we are forced to conclude that the "tough call" is Odium causing disaster on Sel, and the "seen its power" is Jaddeth (referenced to be in the earth multiple times) creating the rift that causes Aons to stop working.

However, if Hoid is indeed a Shard, then we have some problems.  Clearly we have interacted with him, so either we didn't "interact" with Austere/Endowment but instead saw its influence (sending Lightsong back, etc) or there is some other discrepancy.  Then, who indeed left before the story was told?

I personally think it far more likely that Rayse/Odium had left before the story on Elantris, and that Hoid has something special going for him.

Comatose's idea:

http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7006.0

Brandon's quote:

http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7006.120

[Chaos]

Brandon doesn't answer whether Hoid holds a Shard, so I asked him if Hoid is one of the four Shards of that list. Brandon said he's not. Which, also, indicates to me that he probably does not hold a Shard. After all, if Hoid wrote the epigraphs in Part Two and did, in fact, hold a Shard, this suggests that Hoid would stop Odium, in which case Odium would know of Hoid's existence as a Shard and go to crush him.

I think that Austere holds the Endowment Shard (much as Ati held Ruin), based on the in-text references to him in Warbreaker.  Furthermore, as Comatose pointed out on TWG, I believe that the flowers that produce the dye are his physical embodiment (much like atium for Ruin).  They grow in one place and are valuable enough to control an entire economy (or world).

I agree that the Tears of Edgli are related to Endowment. However, I don't think you can claim that Austre is the name of the person holding Endowment. After all, Preservation was known as Terr to the Terris people. Austre might be his name, but it could be the name the culture granted Endowment instead.

[Rubix]

I agree that the Tears of Edgli are related to Endowment. However, I don't think you can claim that Austre is the name of the person holding Endowment. After all, Preservation was known as Terr to the Terris people. Austre might be his name, but it could be the name the culture granted Endowment instead.

Then perhaps we should stop bringing up The Allmighty. For all we know, The Allmighty is actually Cultivation.

[WolfBro87]

Then perhaps we should stop bringing up The Allmighty. For all we know, The Allmighty is actually Cultivation.

I think we can safely say that the Almighty is a different Shard then Cultivation. 

I know its not really needed, but here is a spoiler warning for the end of 'The Way of Kings'.

In Dalinar's last vision the figure refers to Cultivation as if it was another entity, saying she was better at seeing the future then he was.  Furthermore he identifys himself as God, the creator of mankind, the one they call the Almighty (not an exact quote I don't think).

It would seem very strange to me if the Almighty would identify himself as one person then imply he was not another.  So I would wager that the Almighty is not Cultivation.

[Chaos]

I agree with WolfBro. The Almighty is the one who references Cultivation, and refers to Cultivation as female. Thus, the Almighty is a separate entity.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

Bringing in an additional theory to this thread.  Because (we think) there are 16 shards, does anyone else think they'll be organized sort of like the table of Allomantic metals?  With pairs and quarters and things like that?

[Chaos]

Certainly, Ruin and Preservation suggests such pairings, but I asked Brandon about a year ago if that was true for all Shards, if they have pairs. He said they don't. (Case in point, Endowment doesn't have a pair). But I think there may be some rationale for powers that we don't know about yet.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

But wouldn't there have to be another Shard on Nalthis, in order for it to even exist?  Ruin said that a Shard by itself couldn't create.

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey]

Ah, that was not shards in general, but the powers of Ruin and the powers of Preservation specifically that cannot create alone.  Other shards may have the power to create on their own.

[Andrew the Great]

Think about it - Ruin = Destruction, Preservation = Stagnation. Neither of them would be able to do much to create on their own. Endowment seems like it would be able to if any of the shards could.

Also, it's entirely possible that there was just a planet there with people on it. After all, we know that there were people around before Adonalsium shattered (Hoid was there when it shattered, and the other shardbearers likely were as well). Endowment just found a home and settled down.....

[Ryan]

I believe Bavadin to be the Nightwatcher. Hoid lumps him in with Rayse when he talks about his grudge; the way he phrases it implies the grudge is against both of them at once, not two separate grudges, and that he's on Roshar "perpetuating" that grudge against both of them. The Almighty is dead, so the Nightwatcher has the only other Shard besides Odium left on Roshar. Of course, we don't know what his Shard is called.

[Chaos]

Ruin said he couldn't create by himself. Don't generalize things unnecessarily when it's not necessarily an arbitrary case.

</mathspeak>...

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey]

Dude Chaos, Andrew and I just said that.

[Chaos]

Hey, I totally missed there was another page! I can read.

[Andrew the Great]

I believe Bavadin to be the Nightwatcher. Hoid lumps him in with Rayse when he talks about his grudge; the way he phrases it implies the grudge is against both of them at once, not two separate grudges, and that he's on Roshar "perpetuating" that grudge against both of them. The Almighty is dead, so the Nightwatcher has the only other Shard besides Odium left on Roshar. Of course, we don't know what his Shard is called.

Maybe it's me, but I seem to remember somewhere in Way of Kings, someone referring to the Nightwatcher as she. I could be wrong there. I also seem to remember Bavadin being a he. Though that could just be me thinking that Bavadin sounds more like a man's name than a woman's. I don't have my copy of WoK with me right now, but I'll check on this when I do. If that were the case, it would definitely decrease the likelihood of this particular theory.

Also, I have to wonder, is the Old Magic in any way related to the shards? After all, the Shards seem to (at least indirectly) power the new magic, so what would power the old? And if it is a Shard, why would it be Old at all? As far as we know, the shards that are currently on Roshar have always been, except for possibly a brief vacation every now and then. I suppose it's feasible that there was a time when there was one shard and then more came later, but if that's the case, what allowed the New Magic to so thoroughly stamp out the old? In all the other worlds we've seen with two or more magic systems, they were both about equally prevalent. Hemalurgy, with the inquisitors, was about as common as being a mistborn (though being a misting is a lot more common than having one spike was.....). We saw lots more Elantrians than anything else, but I suspect that's because other magic systems on Elantris were....well, elsewhere. No one in the area we were watching could use them.

This leads me to believe that the Old Magic is, in fact, Old. It wasn't fueled by Shards. Granted, it's entirely possible that it is, but for now, I see more evidence for it not being Shard-powered.

That said, I'd love to know what does power it. And if anyone can find evidence to support it being Shard-powered, I could totally accept that too. (I'm actually struggling with the fact that all of the other magics we've seen have been Shard-powered as far as we know, and as of yet we know of nothing else that can power a magic system).

Also, a single gift and single curse? Yeah, I guess it's cool, but it's not nearly as epic and applicable to every situation of what we've seen of other shard's powers so far. The Old Magic seems rather limited in comparison to Shard-based magic. Assuming that it's not, in fact, Shard-based. Hmmm....

[Ryan]

Also, a single gift and single curse? Yeah, I guess it's cool, but it's not nearly as epic and applicable to every situation of what we've seen of other shard's powers so far. The Old Magic seems rather limited in comparison to Shard-based magic. Assuming that it's not, in fact, Shard-based. Hmmm....

A single gift and curse is what the Nightwatcher does. Nobody said it's all s/he can do.

My main reason for assuming the Old Magic is Shard-powered is that every magic system in the Cosmere we've seen to date has been Shard-powered. Though I do have to wonder, what powers Hoid? Hmm...

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

Well, we know that the Shardblades and Plate have only been around since the founding of the Knights Radiant (assumably), but I'm thinking the Nightwatcher was around from the foundations of Roshar, thus making it Older magic, compared other things we've seen.  It can still be Shard based, but it's all about timing.  It's like Feruchemy and Hemalurgy.  Feruchemy has been around as long as humans have and Hemalurgy has possibly been that long, but Hemalurgy wasn't used until TLR's reign because no one knew about it.

[Andrew the Great]

Not to mention the fact that there weren't allomancers around to steal the magic from, though they could have stolen from Feruchemists.

And now that you mention it, you're right, Feruchemy was around for much longer than either of the other two systems.