Why didn't Wayne give his gold bracelet to Wax at the bottom of the Temple?

[Tortankum]

I could have this wrong, but couldn't Wax have been able to tap Investiture from his Southerner Medallion and use it to heal up with Wayne's gold band?

[Turbonator]

The medallion was not for Feruchemical gold.

[Cartographer7]

I assume by "Investure" you mean "Connection". (Feel free to correct me if I've assumed incorrectly.) The Medallions do make use of Connection, but I don't think it's something that's easily transferable. It's set up to connect the user in a way that allows them to use the medallion's other properties, not provide a "choose a new connection as needed" ability. So it couldn't have let him connect with Wayne's gold and tap the stored healing.

EDIT: Actually, I can't remember which medallion he had in that scene. The translation medallion did use Connection to function, so that makes it more plausible as a solution. However, it was built specifically to give you connection to the place you're currently at. I think you'd have to do some fancy feruchemical hacking to make it connect you to anything else.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Cartographer7

[Oversleep]

Okay, only @Turbonator gets it right. We really need a coppermind page on medallions.

How they work:
Normal metalmind is tappable only be the one who stored. However, by reducing your Identity to zero (by storing aluminium) while storing an attribute, the metalmind is no longer keyed to the owner.
Unkeyed metalmind is tappable by anyone with the right abilities. So an unkeyed goldmind is tappable by any Bloodmaker. So Wayne can use the goldmind Wax took from the Set woman in New Seran. But Wax can't tap it because he's not a Bloodmaker.
Medallions however... they're an unsealed nicrosilmind. A simple unkeyed nicrosilmind would be tappable by any Soulbearer, but an unsealed one is tappable by literally anyone. We have no idea how this works.

Summing everything up, medallions give you abilities (because you tap them from nicrosil) and then you can use those abilities. If there was medallion with Coinshot power, you could tap it and then you could swallow some steel and burn it. A medallion containing Feruchemical gold would make Wax able to tap the Set's goldmind Wayne carried. Spearhead did contain in its nicrosilmind Feruchemical gold, so Wax could tap it and then tap Wayne's unkeyed metalmind. But since Spearhead also had vast storages of gold, it was just easier to tap those.

I hope this clears things up.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Oversleep

[Yata he/him]

 

Oversleep explaination is quite perfect therefore I don't think there is need to say more about

8 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Okay, only @Turbonator gets it right. We really need a coppermind page on medallions.

This began to be a real problem, as far as I know there are some dibate about how to made it...but there is the need to hurry. Many people are too confused about the Medallion Tech  

[Tortankum]

Thanks for the explanations, but im still slightly confused. Why is Wax able to use the investiture tapped from Nicrosil in the medallion to tap warmth but not healing or any other power from any other unkeyed metalmind. I dont see a difference between the unkeyed brass metalmind in the medallion and Wayne's unkeyed gold metalmind. 

 

[Yata he/him]

14 minutes ago, Tortankum said:

Thanks for the explanations, but im still slightly confused. Why is Wax able to use the investiture tapped from Nicrosil in the medallion to tap warmth but not healing or any other power from any other unkeyed metalmind. I dont see a difference between the unkeyed brass metalmind in the medallion and Wayne's unkeyed gold metalmind. 

 

I suggest you to re-read Oversleep's post but I may try again:

You have right in the last part...there is no difference between the unkeyed brassmind and the wayne unkeyed goldmind (well of course other than one keep warm and the other healing). The difference is about the Nicrosilmind in the Medallion and what "powers are stored there". The medallion haven't all the powers (they may have, but usually they didn't have to). The Bands of Mourning are for example a simply "Medallion" (well it has another form, but just to remain in the wording) with all the powers (and relative metalminds to store/tap all of them).

The reason Wax can't tap healing from unkeyed metalmind at this point is because he had not Medallion who gift him bloodmaker's power. The medallion he used on the Ship has only F-brass power (or also another that I don't remember). It's hard to made a Medallion with multiple people's powers for some of interference (Allik said he saw just a couple of time in his life medallion with 4 Powers). The Bands may have a lot of powers because they was made from people with multiple powers (mistborn for example) and the interference isn't high. The Southern Scadrial often uses Medallion with 1-2 powers, better medallion are rare (3 powers), very rare (4 powers) and leggendary (the bands for example).

Edited September 16, 2016 by Yata

[Jondesu he/him]

9 minutes ago, Tortankum said:

Thanks for the explanations, but im still slightly confused. Why is Wax able to use the investiture tapped from Nicrosil in the medallion to tap warmth but not healing or any other power from any other unkeyed metalmind. I dont see a difference between the unkeyed brass metalmind in the medallion and Wayne's unkeyed gold metalmind. 

 

The medallion that Wax was using had the ability to tap Warmth (Feruchemical Brass), stored in it by a Firesoul while they were storing their Identity as well (probably using the ability granted in the second Nicrosil ring or stored in the same one, since we don't know exactly how that works), making anyone who held it able to tap Warmth, even if they had no Feruchemical abilities at all.  It didn't contain the ability to tap Feruchemical Gold, however, so he couldn't have used the unkeyed gold metalmind.

Basically, "Investiture" is sorta the wrong term for what Nicrosil stores, since it's too vague and doesn't accurately describe it (Khriss' mistake, not Brandons, and probably intentionally for now).  Nicrosil appears to store the ability to use Investiture in a specific way, such as a specific Allomantic or Feruchemic power.  So Firesouls can store their ability to use Brass, Coinshots can store their ability to burn steel, etc.  If a Mistborn and/or a Full Feruchemist does it, it appears to grant access to all their powers, basically storing their ability as a Mistborn, rather than separating out individual abilities.  I don't think we know if a Mistborn could choose to store only the ability to burn Gold, for instance, since other Feruchemical metals can sometimes hold specific things (think Feruchemical Tin and storing vision, hearing, etc separately).

Yata just beat me to the punch a bit, but hopefully one of our answers straightens things out for you.

jW

[Yata he/him]

3 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Basically, "Investiture" is sorta the wrong term for what Nicrosil stores, since it's too vague and doesn't accurately describe it (Khriss' mistake, not Brandons, and probably intentionally for now).  Nicrosil appears to store the ability to use Investiture in a specific way, such as a specific Allomantic or Feruchemic power.

Probably the best wording would be that Feruchemical Nicrosil stores "Spirit-Web" but I feel it wrong.....Because Spirit-Web isn't something limitated to Powers.

I hope the Ars Arcanum of The Lost Metal would be more precise about.

[Cartographer7]

16 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Okay, only @Turbonator gets it right. We really need a coppermind page on medallions.

Apparently I don't know what I'm talking about XD

Is this all in the book, or are there WoBs on this as well?

[Tortankum]

@Jondesu Thank you, that was the answer I was looking for. That makes perfect sense now, although somewhat unfortunate because it means someone like Vasher cant tap an unkeyed nicrosilmind and use it to power awakening.
 

So in order to get a medallion with a single power, it would have to be created by a ferring/misting who either has a feruchemical aluminum spike, or one wearing another medallion with nicrosil/aluminum. Or a full feruchemist but we dont know if they can specify which powers they put in. 

And the one last unknown is how everyone seems to be able to tap the nicrosilmind in the first place.

 

[Jondesu he/him]

9 minutes ago, Tortankum said:

And the one last unknown is how everyone seems to be able to tap the nicrosilmind in the first place.

Yep, we know how to access an unlocked metalmind, and that all makes sense, but the unkeyed nicrosil metalminds are still a big mystery.  I'd like to know in particular if people from other worlds would be able to use them, or only Scadrians (because of their P+R Innate Investiture).

jW

[Yata he/him]

19 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Yep, we know how to access an unlocked metalmind, and that all makes sense, but the unkeyed nicrosil metalminds are still a big mystery.  I'd like to know in particular if people from other worlds would be able to use them, or only Scadrians (because of their P+R Innate Investiture).

jW

Probably you meant Unsealed Nicrosil Metalmind.

Yes the "unsealing" process is still a mistery...It may be used also on other kind of Metalminds with interesting effects (I think it will be the way the Feruchemy will be Spread in commercial way).

You don't sell the "power" but only a tappable Feruchemical Attribute.

For example a Unsealed Goldmind may be tapped by everyone as if you are a Bloodmaker (it's also a good way to spread feruchemical effect without the risk of kill some stupid child who store too much)...but you can't store Healing or gain other benefit....You buy only an amount of Healing. It may be a cool way for Ferring to gain from their powers...Storing attributes to sell in the form of Unsealed Metamind.

EDIT: I went far from the topic, Ignore the last part of the post ;-)

Edited September 16, 2016 by Yata

[Ari he/him]

On 17/09/2016 at 0:45 AM, Tortankum said:

Thanks for the explanations, but im still slightly confused. Why is Wax able to use the investiture tapped from Nicrosil in the medallion to tap warmth but not healing or any other power from any other unkeyed metalmind. I dont see a difference between the unkeyed brass metalmind in the medallion and Wayne's unkeyed gold metalmind. 

 

So, for Allomancy-granting medallions, the process is simple. They need a Nicrosil disc or ring for each Allomantic ability they grant. Remember, it's easy to two a two-part medallion, and harder and harder to do each subsequent ring after that.

For Feruchemy-granting medallions, you actually need two parts. You need a ring that's a Nicrosilmind of the relevant Ferring ability, and then a disc or ring that also serves as the appropriate type of metalmind. You could also substitute the disc in the middle for any unkeyed metalmind, such as Wayne's gold bracelet.

You're focusing on the unkeyed brass(?) metalmind disc in the centre of the medallion, but that's only half of it. You also need a nicrosil ring that's got the right type of Investiture stored in it, and the narrative so far suggests that Nicrosilminds are like Tinminds, that is, you have to have one for each different type of investiture you want to store. (Which means there are 32 Nicrosilminds and at least 15 other metalminds within the Bands)

Edited September 18, 2016 by Ari

[Yata he/him]

Sorry @Ari but you are wrong.

Many abilities may be stored in the same piece of Nicrosil...the book is pretty explicit about. The first Medallions Allik gived to everyone gift two (feruchemical) powers (metal1 e Metal2) and they are made of three rings: One of Nicrosil to gift the two powers, one of Metal1 to easy tap-store Metal1's power and one of Metal2 to easy tap-store Metal2's power

An ipotetical Mistborn-Medallion (we never saw one) would be a single Unsealed Nicrosilmind.

You can't use more than a Medallion at the same time, this mean you can't tap from more than a Nicrosilmind at the same time...With your logic everyone may uses all the medallions they want.

PS: Little doubt, the Did book give you the impression of the BoM was made of more than 30 Nicrosilmind ?

Edited September 18, 2016 by Yata

[Ari he/him]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Sorry @Ari but you are wrong.

Many abilities may be stored in the same piece of Nicrosil...the book is pretty explicit about. The first Medallions Allik gived to everyone gift two (feruchemical) powers (metal1 e Metal2) and they are made of three rings: One of Nicrosil to gift the two powers, one of Metal1 to easy tap-store Metal1's power and one of Metal2 to easy tap-store Metal2's power

An ipotetical Mistborn-Medallion (we never saw one) would be a single Unsealed Nicrosilmind.

You can't use more than a Medallion at the same time, this mean you can't tap from more than a Nicrosilmind at the same time...With your logic everyone may uses all the medallions they want.

PS: Little doubt, the Did book give you the impression of the BoM was made of more than 30 Nicrosilmind ?

I'll check up on that, you might be right that it's one physical part, still, it's relevant that it needs to have the correct types of investiture stored in it. You can't tap being a Bloodmaker from a Nicrosilmind where there's only Connector powers stored, it doesn't work that way even if any Nicrosilmind can potentially store any combination of types of investiture. (To be honest, I had suspected they made the rings look combined. As for the bands, it's described as a ridiculously interwoven metalmind, so it really wouldn't make much difference between 32 metalminds and 47)

[Yata he/him]

22 minutes ago, Ari said:

I'll check up on that, you might be right that it's one physical part, still, it's relevant that it needs to have the correct types of investiture stored in it. You can't tap being a Bloodmaker from a Nicrosilmind where there's only Connector powers stored, it doesn't work that way even if any Nicrosilmind can potentially store any combination of types of investiture. (To be honest, I had suspected they made the rings look combined. As for the bands, it's described as a ridiculously interwoven metalmind, so it really wouldn't make much difference between 32 metalminds and 47)

Yes indeed I was only talking about the Physical metal and how works... I never states you may tap something different from whaterver the Soulbearer has stored (as the whole topic is about)

It would be a difference Because if you can tap multiple Nicrosilmind at the same time, you may create a "Bands" simply using 32 Single-Power Medallions at the same time.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Yata

[JUQ he/him]

On 9/17/2016 at 4:35 AM, Jondesu said:

P+R

lol I just realized when I saw this that Scadrial's gods have the same first letters of their names as my parents.