King Elhokar pontieal Knight Radient

[bdoble97]

On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 9:52 AM, maxal said:

Not all. I don't believe one second Elhokar is becoming a Radiant.

I don't want him to. He is way to much of a baby. But i think he will become one.

[Krandacth]

I see all the proto-KRs as starting out selfish, but fail in their selfish aims. Through the bond and the speaking of oaths, they reclaim their particular selfish desire, but in a generalised sense that applies to the world at large. 

Kaladin wanted to protect Tien, his brother and basically the source of his happiness. He was broken when he failed to protect his brother, then started applying that protection to people who reminded him of Tien, then through Syl begins to see protection as an ideal.

Dalinar wanted to beat the entire kingdom into submission, United by his might under his brother. When his brother died, the weaknesses inherent in the kingdom (caused by the manner of its unification, which is largely his fault) become clear, and it becomes clear he has failed. He then goes about doing it right, and presumably through the Stormfather will come to see the ideal of unity applied to all humanity on Roshar.

Elhokar wants to build a strong kingdom, out of a desire to live up to his father's legacy and keep hold of the power the leadership of such implies. He has failed, and is starting to acknowledge that by the end of WoR. Now that his personal power has crumbled, he is perfectly placed to start moving towards the generalised ideal of building strength in the next books.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Krandacth

[Amaror]

10 hours ago, Krandacth said:

I see all the proto-KRs as starting out selfish, but fail in their selfish aims. Through the bond and the speaking of oaths, they reclaim their particular selfish desire, but in a generalised sense that applies to the world at large. 

Kaladin wanted to protect Tien, his brother and basically the source of his happiness. He was broken when he failed to protect his brother, then started applying that protection to people who reminded him of Tien, then through Syl begins to see protection as an ideal.

Dalinar wanted to beat the entire kingdom into submission, United by his might under his brother. When his brother died, the weaknesses inherent in the kingdom (caused by the manner of its unification, which is largely his fault) become clear, and it becomes clear he has failed. He then goes about doing it right, and presumably through the Stormfather will come to see the ideal of unity applied to all humanity on Roshar.

Elhokar wants to build a strong kingdom, out of a desire to live up to his father's legacy and keep hold of the power the leadership of such implies. He has failed, and is starting to acknowledge that by the end of WoR. Now that his personal power has crumbled, he is perfectly placed to start moving towards the generalised ideal of building strength in the next books.

Interesting. A very good argument. I think people could point out shallan as a contradiction as she supposedly started out by trying to bring more happiness into her families live. But we actually don't know how shallan was before her breaking since we don't even know what broke her yet. Can't be her mothers death because at that point she allready has pattern and has actually progressed far enough to summon him.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Krandacth said:

I see all the proto-KRs as starting out selfish, but fail in their selfish aims. Through the bond and the speaking of oaths, they reclaim their particular selfish desire, but in a generalised sense that applies to the world at large. 

Kaladin wanted to protect Tien, his brother and basically the source of his happiness. He was broken when he failed to protect his brother, then started applying that protection to people who reminded him of Tien, then through Syl begins to see protection as an ideal.

Dalinar wanted to beat the entire kingdom into submission, United by his might under his brother. When his brother died, the weaknesses inherent in the kingdom (caused by the manner of its unification, which is largely his fault) become clear, and it becomes clear he has failed. He then goes about doing it right, and presumably through the Stormfather will come to see the ideal of unity applied to all humanity on Roshar.

Elhokar wants to build a strong kingdom, out of a desire to live up to his father's legacy and keep hold of the power the leadership of such implies. He has failed, and is starting to acknowledge that by the end of WoR. Now that his personal power has crumbled, he is perfectly placed to start moving towards the generalised ideal of building strength in the next books.

I think selfish is the wrong term to describe the proto-KR: none of them have been selfish. They have been self-centered, but not selfish. Kaladin spending his entire pay check in bribes to secure the younger recruits into his squad so he could train them properly and give them the protection they need up until they learn how to fight on their own isn't by any mean selfish, but it is self-centered because only a restricted number of young fellows met the criteria he unconsciously put on them. Still, one would argue Kaladin didn't realistically possessed the means to protect everyone, so he dedicated himself towards protecting the most vulnerable ones. It was admirable and certainly not selfish. Also one does not need any reason to want to protect a sibling and/or a family member and those actions cannot be described as selfish. The bout where is self-centered is when he puts "protecting" Bridge 4 above his other duties even when Bridge 4 has earned his keep which prevented him from denouncing Moash. There, he saw to his own personal world needs and he forgot the higher game: it wasn't selfish, but it was self-centered. The same could be said about the side-carry which was great for Bridge 4, but disastrous for basically anyone else, but to his defense, it wasn't his job to say so. He did ask for permission: it wasn't up to him to figure out it wouldn't be a good tactical move. 

Shallan also isn't selfish by any means: she dedicated herself towards improving life for her brothers, even doing the dirty work for them. She hasn't have one single selfish thought in the course of two books and if she may have started to enjoy her liberty and her new found independence, given where she comes from, it is hardly reprehensible.

Dalinar couldn't care less about how others view him and if he once crushed a kingdom so his brother could built a new one, he now regrets this past. He seeks to unite others under a better morality and he is hoping to make them see the wrong in their petty attitude. This isn't selfish, the kingdom is not for him to rule: he wishes it because he genuinely believe it would be within everyone's best intentions. He sees how spoiled the lighteyes have become and he wish to put a stop to it. I honestly do not see where Dalinar could even begin to qualify as selfish.

Now Elhokar... As others have pointed out, without a POV it is extremely hard to get what his real thoughts are, but if we base ourselves onto his little conversation with Kaladin, I believe he never once mentioned the word "kingdom" or "people". He does however imply wanting others to see him as a hero, as a great man, but none of this is directed towards ensuring what is best for the kingdom, it is all about him. If Elhokar had really cared about the good of the kingdom, then he wouldn't be so hard on himself because given all circumstances, he hasn't done so bad. He isn't a terrible king: he successfully managed to focus the Highprinces on tasks other than fighting each other. He gives in for what they need to stop being at each other's throat, but he demands just what he needs to still call it a kingdom. He isn't bad, others think him bad merely because he isn't enforcing his rule through strength of will, charisma or by being the strongest meanest man on the mountain. Elhokar isn't an idiot, unlike Dalinar, he understands by giving the nobility their fancy feasts, he keeps them happy thus less prone to rebel and boy is he good at throwing these. It is thus his little rant merely seem to be about how he is perceived by others. If it isn't just about him, then we have yet to read it.

[Krandacth]

@maxal Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of the proto-radiants remained selfish, and the primary examples are most certainly not so now. But I see a pattern of their becoming broken being related to a fundamental failure in a selfishly motivated goal, and the reason they make good candidates for radianthood is that their response to their failure is to hold to the principle of their goal whilst giving up the selfishness of its original object.

Child Kal was definitely selfish, and whilst going after Tien was possibly the most self-sacrificing act of his young life, it was also selfish: His parents wanted one of them to escape the nightmare Hearthstone had become, and he had a greater chance of doing good in the world if he had studied in Kharbranth. But he chose to follow Tien into the army largely because he couldn't bear the thought of Tien not being around.

We obviously don't know what caused Shallan to break, so can't comment, but all the points you make about her trying to save her family are not only post-breaking, but post-oaths *and* a degree of Radiant progression; my observation that they become less and less selfish as they progress therefore holds.

By all accounts, Elhokar has yet to be broken for all of WoK and most of WoR, so he should not be expected to be any better a person than mid-teen Kal or warlord Dalinar.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

40 minutes ago, maxal said:

Now Elhokar... As others have pointed out, without a POV it is extremely hard to get what his real thoughts are, but if we base ourselves onto his little conversation with Kaladin, I believe he never once mentioned the word "kingdom" or "people". He does however imply wanting others to see him as a hero, as a great man, but none of this is directed towards ensuring what is best for the kingdom, it is all about him. If Elhokar had really cared about the good of the kingdom, then he wouldn't be so hard on himself because given all circumstances, he hasn't done so bad. He isn't a terrible king: he successfully managed to focus the Highprinces on tasks other than fighting each other. He gives in for what they need to stop being at each other's throat, but he demands just what he needs to still call it a kingdom. He isn't bad, others think him bad merely because he isn't enforcing his rule through strength of will, charisma or by being the strongest meanest man on the mountain. Elhokar isn't an idiot, unlike Dalinar, he understands by giving the nobility their fancy feasts, he keeps them happy thus less prone to rebel and boy is he good at throwing these. It is thus his little rant merely seem to be about how he is perceived by others. If it isn't just about him, then we have yet to read it.

I believe that right now, Elhokar is basically a child. He is selfish, but he ultimately wants to do the right thing. He simply doesn't know how. He isn't a bad king, but any decision he makes is criticized by one of a dozen different factions. He thinks that if he was somehow better, more like Gavilar, he could please everyone, and so he blames himself. Dalinar tries to help him, but I think Dalinar only makes it worse. He spoils Elhokar, giving him whatever he wants, without ever giving him any real responsibility. Because people treat him like a child, he acts like one. 

I think this quote sums up his problems. (Emphasis added. )

Quote

“It’s a pattern, though I can’t figure it out. When I try to be strong, I make a fool of myself. When I try to be merciful, people walk all over me. When I try to listen to counsel, it turns out I’ve picked the wrong men! When I try to do everything on my own, Dalinar has to take over lest I ruin the kingdom.

No one has ever let Elhokar have any of the mistakes or experiences that would let him move past his childlike mindset. It might be good for the kingdom, but it isn't good for Elhokar. These are rings he should have gotten as a prince, with his father observing him and slowly giving him more responsibilities as he proved himself, like what Dalinar did with Adolin. When Gavilar died, Dalinar should have done the same thing. But he didn't. Elhokar should have learned how to be a leader and king as part of his training. But he didn't, which is how he ended up in Kaladin's room asking to learn how to be a hero, his idea of what a leader is. 

I think Elhokar will grow in book 3 out of his current childlike mindset. As for becoming a Radiant, I could see it going either way. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Krandacth said:

@maxal Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of the proto-radiants remained selfish, and the primary examples are most certainly not so now. But I see a pattern of their becoming broken being related to a fundamental failure in a selfishly motivated goal, and the reason they make good candidates for radianthood is that their response to their failure is to hold to the principle of their goal whilst giving up the selfishness of its original object.

Child Kal was definitely selfish, and whilst going after Tien was possibly the most self-sacrificing act of his young life, it was also selfish: His parents wanted one of them to escape the nightmare Hearthstone had become, and he had a greater chance of doing good in the world if he had studied in Kharbranth. But he chose to follow Tien into the army largely because he couldn't bear the thought of Tien not being around.

We obviously don't know what caused Shallan to break, so can't comment, but all the points you make about her trying to save her family are not only post-breaking, but post-oaths *and* a degree of Radiant progression; my observation that they become less and less selfish as they progress therefore holds.

By all accounts, Elhokar has yet to be broken for all of WoK and most of WoR, so he should not be expected to be any better a person than mid-teen Kal or warlord Dalinar.

Was it selfish for Kaladin to join the army in protection of his brother? It certainly was naive, to think as a mere 15 years old recruit he would have both the capacity and the liberty to actually protect his brother, but was it selfish? Perhaps it is selfish if you take into account his parents: he gave up everything they build for him, except when you think of it, he never wanted it. This is the sad truth: Kaladin never wanted to go to Karbranth to become a surgeon. Oh he could have had, he had the capacities for it, he had respect for his father's work, but he thought he'd be more effective being out there, on the battlefield preventing men from ending into his father's surgery. What was selfish then? Kaladin for breaking his parents dreams in a rather abrupt way or Lirin for imposing the dream on Kaladin to begin with? To even steal for it. The line is very thin here and I am not ready to call Kaladin selfish for his choice here. Was an arrogant spoiled kid? Yes. He was. Within his own world, he was spoiled and yes, as an adult, he fails to recognize it because he wrongly associates material luxuries with being spoiled. Spoiled isn't about material means, it is abut over-indulging one child to the point of ruining his character. Lirin did it with Kaladin, Dalinar did it with Renarin and he is currently doing it with Elhokar.

I must therefore ask again if it truly was selfish? What other choice did Kaladin have? Stay behind and become someone he did not want to become. He would have never forgive himself for not having gone with Tien. Heck, he refused to go back home because he felt convinced his parents would lay Tien's death at this feet. There were not other choices for him. Is this selfish? Even if it were, Kaladin's choice wasn't devoid of self-sacrifice and care for the live of someone else than himself. This is at least much more than Elhokar has shown us, within the pages of the books.

 

3 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I believe that right now, Elhokar is basically a child. He is selfish, but he ultimately wants to do the right thing. He simply doesn't know how. He isn't a bad king, but any decision he makes is criticized by one of a dozen different factions. He thinks that if he was somehow better, more like Gavilar, he could please everyone, and so he blames himself. Dalinar tries to help him, but I think Dalinar only makes it worse. He spoils Elhokar, giving him whatever he wants, without ever giving him any real responsibility. Because people treat him like a child, he acts like one. 

I think this quote sums up his problems. (Emphasis added. )

No one has ever let Elhokar have any of the mistakes or experiences that would let him move past his childlike mindset. It might be good for the kingdom, but it isn't good for Elhokar. These are rings he should have gotten as a prince, with his father observing him and slowly giving him more responsibilities as he proved himself, like what Dalinar did with Adolin. When Gavilar died, Dalinar should have done the same thing. But he didn't. Elhokar should have learned how to be a leader and king as part of his training. But he didn't, which is how he ended up in Kaladin's room asking to learn how to be a hero, his idea of what a leader is. 

I think Elhokar will grow in book 3 out of his current childlike mindset. As for becoming a Radiant, I could see it going either way. 

I agree with this post, whole of it. Yes, Elhokar is childish, terribly childish and spoiled. It appears as if everyone indulged his every whim while refusing him to take responsibilities for his misgivings. Since he is never accountable for anything, he certainly isn't accountable for the good he has done: it works both ways. The same could be said about Renarin whom has been terribly spoiled by Dalinar. He allowed him to wallow into self-pity, never taking any responsibility for his own inaction. As a result, he is terribly childish too, much like Elhokar and if he isn't as selfish, he certainly is self-indulging. 

I have come to see it as a flaw within Dalinar's character: he spoils those he loves the most whom are Elhokar, Renarin and to a lesser extend Kaladin. I confounds love with over-indulgence. He thinks always saying yes is a proof of love: it is a trap many parents fall into. They love their children, but they don't correct them thinking if they frustrate them, they lose their love. 

I certainly hope Elhokar will grow out of his childish ways: he may not be a great king, but he may be the one they need right now.

[Krandacth]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

Perhaps it is selfish if you take into account his parents: he gave up everything they build for him, except when you think of it, he never wanted it. This is the sad truth: Kaladin never wanted to go to Karbranth to become a surgeon.

...

Was an arrogant spoiled kid? Yes. He was. Within his own world, he was spoiled and yes, as an adult, he fails to recognize it because he wrongly associates material luxuries with being spoiled. Spoiled isn't about material means, it is abut over-indulging one child to the point of ruining his character. Lirin did it with Kaladin, Dalinar did it with Renarin and he is currently doing it with Elhokar.

...

Heck, he refused to go back home because he felt convinced his parents would lay Tien's death at this feet.

...

Even if it were, Kaladin's choice wasn't devoid of self-sacrifice and care for the live of someone else than himself. This is at least much more than Elhokar has shown us, within the pages of the books.

...

Yes, Elhokar is childish, terribly childish and spoiled. It appears as if everyone indulged his every whim while refusing him to take responsibilities for his misgivings. Since he is never accountable for anything, he certainly isn't accountable for the good he has done: it works both ways. The same could be said about Renarin whom has been terribly spoiled by Dalinar. He allowed him to wallow into self-pity, never taking any responsibility for his own inaction. As a result, he is terribly childish too, much like Elhokar and if he isn't as selfish, he certainly is self-indulging.  

Firstly, the main thing I got from the Kaladin flashbacks was his indecision. He went back and forth like a seesaw. In fact, by the time of Tien's drafting, he had decided to go to Kharbranth (again selfishly: So he could learn to talk circles around lighteys). So saying it is a sad truth that he never wanted to go to Kharbranth is a bit of a stretch

Secondly, Elhokar's conversations with Kaladin show he cares about whether he is good enough for his kingdom. Whilst this is self-centered, it is implicitly valuing his kingdom above himself. This is also the implication of Kaladin's dropping everything to go after Tien. The difference is that Kaladins course of action was obvious, and Elhokar is struggling to find his way (understandably).

Thirdly, Kaladin refused to go back home because he had failed in his promise to keep Tien safe. If he hadn't made that promise, and by extension hadn't gone in the first place, he would have no reason to think they would blame him. Their reactions to him going made that plain. Furthermore, in failing to keep that promise he failed to give meaning to his original "betrayal" of their hopes for him, and his own decision to become a surgeon. Therefore he is doubly deserving of their disappointment and blame, in his eyes.

Finally, in the highlighted sections above, you point to childishness and being spoilt as the underlying features of Elhokar that you feel make him unworthy of Radianthood, when these are the very traits you attribute to young Kal and Renarin, two people who have since developed into proto-KRs.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Krandacth

[If.you.die.I.go.stupid]

Kaladin is more self centered than selfish. He thinks he can save everyone. This is part of what attracts Syl, but Kaladin doesn't know where to draw the line. He sees himself as responsible for everyone's safety and blames himself for things he has no control over. For a while he thinks the nightwatcher or almighty has cursed him. It seems the height of hubris to think god is out to get you specifically. Kaladin really reminds me of the Aristotelian virtue of magnanimity, knowing your worth and abilities and acting accordingly. He is missing this. He wants to do more than his abilities allow. As his abilities grow is is capable of doing a lot, but as a bridgeman with few resources or as a 15 year old with no training, he had extremely unrealistic expectations. As a bridgeman he had good results, but he was disappointed that he wasn't able to save every life. Even as a radiant he will have limits. It will be interesting to see if he can accept that, or if refusing to accept them is a core pat of who he is. Maybe even a core part of what makes him a windrunner.

On the whole I think his motives are selfless, but his actions lack an awareness of what he can do to an extent that causes him depression. Sometimes he strays into selfishness. It is similar to what Navani describes in Dalinar. She tells him his guilt is selfish. Kaladin does the same, wallowing in guilt and taking on responsibilities that aren't his.

[Songstream]

I think that Elhokar is becoming a Dustbringer.  He's a force for destruction, and when he embraces that, he'll be able to use it for good.

Though we know very little about the Dustbringers, one of their surges is Division, which is associated with destruction and decay.  I see several actions of his that have unintentionally resulted in destruction, decay and disunity.  His neglect of Moash's grandparents.  His reassignment of Roshone to where he couldn't do any harm (and did extensive harm to Kaladin's family).  His responsibility for Sadeas' escape from the dueling arena after the disadvantaged duel.  His lack of leadership as nominal king.  The complete debacle that leaving his wife in charge of Kholinar results in.  All are a result of his actions, and I can't think of anything he's done right for the kingdom that hasn't had Dalinar's hand leading the way.  To use the quote Gyorn mentioned above, I think he's coming to realize all of it at the end of WoR.  

Quote

“It’s a pattern, though I can’t figure it out. When I try to be strong, I make a fool of myself. When I try to be merciful, people walk all over me. When I try to listen to counsel, it turns out I’ve picked the wrong men! When I try to do everything on my own, Dalinar has to take over lest I ruin the kingdom."

As for the description he gave of the strange figures he saw,

Quote

"... They watch me.  Always.  Waiting.  I see their faces in mirrors.  Symbols, twisted, inhuman..."

A lot of people have assumed that these are Cryptics.  Cryptids do have symbols for heads, and appear quite creepy and inhuman.  However, their heads are extremely ordered, to the point that details are beyond even Shallan's ability to keep track of.  Unless it's just a different word used by a different observer, I don't think twisted could be applied to their appearance.  They're angular and ordered, which seems opposite of twisted to me.  I don't think they necessarily have to be voidspren, as others have theorized.  If these are a different type of spren, then that leaves open several orders for Elhokar's spren to match, but I think his personality best matches one of the ones with Division, and he's no Skybreaker.  

[muco]

There is a lot of foreshadowing of Elhokar becoming a radiant, at this point, Brandom seems to hint at him being a radiant than any other character.

The only other theory I have is Elhokar becoming a Knight under Kaladin. After all by the end of WOR, Elhokar more or less seems to think very highly of Kaladin, it was almost as if Elhokar was in awe and was almost into hero worshipping him. Now that he is a radiant, one who saved his life would expand on this I guess...... But him being a king and a knight to a former slave would be ironical....

[geralt]

I think it's quite possible that Elkholar will become a radiant, but at the same I feel Brandon will play with our expectations by teasing both him and Adolin as potential future radiants. The only thing is I suspect only one of them will become one while the other would be used as a red herring. 

[Guest]

On 9/26/2016 at 2:42 AM, Krandacth said:

Firstly, the main thing I got from the Kaladin flashbacks was his indecision. He went back and forth like a seesaw. In fact, by the time of Tien's drafting, he had decided to go to Kharbranth (again selfishly: So he could learn to talk circles around lighteys). So saying it is a sad truth that he never wanted to go to Kharbranth is a bit of a stretch

Secondly, Elhokar's conversations with Kaladin show he cares about whether he is good enough for his kingdom. Whilst this is self-centered, it is implicitly valuing his kingdom above himself. This is also the implication of Kaladin's dropping everything to go after Tien. The difference is that Kaladins course of action was obvious, and Elhokar is struggling to find his way (understandably).

Thirdly, Kaladin refused to go back home because he had failed in his promise to keep Tien safe. If he hadn't made that promise, and by extension hadn't gone in the first place, he would have no reason to think they would blame him. Their reactions to him going made that plain. Furthermore, in failing to keep that promise he failed to give meaning to his original "betrayal" of their hopes for him, and his own decision to become a surgeon. Therefore he is doubly deserving of their disappointment and blame, in his eyes.

Finally, in the highlighted sections above, you point to childishness and being spoilt as the underlying features of Elhokar that you feel make him unworthy of Radianthood, when these are the very traits you attribute to young Kal and Renarin, two people who have since developed into proto-KRs.

We have all gotten various impressions of Kaladin's flashbacks. My impression is while he did see-saw from one option to the other, it was obvious his heart was into soldering. It thought it logical since his father has given him so much leisure time in a disguised attempt to have him court Laral, marry her and elevate in station, he turned his son into a bored teenager. Hence, young Kaladin dream of battles, fights, honor and glorious deed where he may save life by sending away the usurper. He may have ultimately agreed to follow his father's path, I have always interpreted he convinced himself it wanted it, but when push came to shove, he left for the army. Had he been so set on becoming a surgeon, it would have been harder for him to give it up, even for Tien. There is also the fact Kaladin never once looked back at what his life may have been with any longing. He even reflects, once within Dalinar's army, how he not only missed the opportunity to ask to join the crew of surgeons and complete his training, the thought of even asking didn't even crossed his mind.

For my part, this is the confirmation my initial impressions have been right: Kaladin never truly wanted to be a surgeon. Soldering is where his heart belongs which isn't to say he would have been miserable as a surgeon, but he is happier as a soldier. He feels more useful. Hence my claim he never wanted to go to Karbranth. I think there are enough element within the text to give credence to this statement.

Elhokar's conversation with Kaladin was centered on himself and how the world perceived him: he never once mentioned his subject or the good of his kingdom. He never said the kingdom deserved a better king, he said he wished he were a better one so others could worship him.

Kaladin felt his parents would blame him for falling at keeping his promise, but only a fool would have expected him to be able to change anything to Tien's faith. Kaladin just takes matters such as words and promises very seriously, even when they are impossible to keep and he did his best. 

I did say Kaladin has been spoiled by his father, but we can't truly be comparing him to Elhokar. Kaladin was spoiled in the sense he was given a better life than his peers and he was allowed an insane amount of leisure time. His father also raised him with an open criticizing mind which, combined to Kaladin's independent mind turned him a man having trouble accepting authority and rules issuing from others. He never had to work with boundaries as a child which made it hard for him to deal with them as an adult, but Kaladin has been taught how to accept responsibilities. He has also been taught about honor. In comparison, Elhokar has most likely been given anything he ever asked for, his every mistake were promptly corrected behind him without anyone even making him accountable. There is also the fact, I referred to 15 years old teenage Kaladin. Elhokar is a 28 years old man, not a teenager. His behavior is much less acceptable. The other difference is while Kaladin can have those traits, he offsets them by strong desire to protect others and to do right. I have no sense this in Elhokar just yet. 

Renarin, I have purposefully left him out. Had you mentioned him in your first post, it would have strengthen your argument because he and Elhokar have a lot in common, but those discussions tend to go bad, so I left him out.

22 hours ago, Songstream said:

...

Dustbringer are the bizarre order. I am not sure we are going to read about them anytime soon.

22 hours ago, muco said:

There is a lot of foreshadowing of Elhokar becoming a radiant, at this point, Brandom seems to hint at him being a radiant than any other character.

The only other theory I have is Elhokar becoming a Knight under Kaladin. After all by the end of WOR, Elhokar more or less seems to think very highly of Kaladin, it was almost as if Elhokar was in awe and was almost into hero worshipping him. Now that he is a radiant, one who saved his life would expand on this I guess...... But him being a king and a knight to a former slave would be ironical....

A lot of foreshadowing has also been made to indicate Elhokar would not become a Radiant. It honestly goes both ways. The only reason people are even discussing it is because of the symbol heads in the mirror, without them nobody would even talk of Elhokar has a Radiant. For my part, this is the major clue. 

1 hour ago, geralt said:

I think it's quite possible that Elkholar will become a radiant, but at the same I feel Brandon will play with our expectations by teasing both him and Adolin as potential future radiants. The only thing is I suspect only one of them will become one while the other would be used as a red herring. 

I agree: one will make it, not the other. This seems highly probable.