King Krooked Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 But who is the wanderer , the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it? —From the Diagram, West Wall Psalm of Wonders: paragraph 8 (Note by Adrotagia: Could this refer to Mraize?) I'm thinking this is speaking of Hoid. Haven't seen any discussion on this particular one, so I thought I'd start one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewStirlingMacDonald Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 Vasher/Zahel also fits the bill of a wanderer, a wild piece, one who makes no sense... Or even possibly Nightblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 This is the thought. I think I have heard the other worldhoppers mentioned but it seems less likely (Mraize and his babsk). I do wonder what influence Hoid has had so far that was visible to Taravangian. He is more actively involved on Roshar than he has been in the past but we haven't seen any major effects yet besides on individuals like Kaladin and Dalinar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Krooked Posted September 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 It's the "I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back." That makes me think it's Hoid. Zahel's only been 2 places (that we know of) , so I don't think that qualifies him to be a "wanderer ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantsForSquares Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 It makes sense for it to be Hoid. He is definitely a "wanderer," and the Diagram was written by the smartest individual on Roshar at the time - a glance and understanding of what Hoid can do would quite possibly reveal the existence of the Cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 Interesting that he would have somehow found about Hoid though. He must've traced social anomalies that Hoid has caused. We know he had been around on Roshar long enough for there to have been effects. The Ghostbloods do seem more likely though in my opinion. They were causing a greater effect so it would be more likely that Taravangian would've noticed their actions. This is all, of course, founded on my opinion that Taravangian didn't actually have prescience abilities during the day of the Diagram and was instead just drawing conclusion from knowledge he knew beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Krooked Posted September 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 That is very possible. What with that expanded thought capacity and all. In addition although I could be very wrong, no other epigraph has been pinned down as talking about Hoid. And of course he should have one. The Letters are a completely different matter, so I'm not counting those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said: This is all, of course, founded on my opinion that Taravangian didn't actually have prescience abilities during the day of the Diagram and was instead just drawing conclusion from knowledge he knew beforehand. Taravangian could have observed Hoid using magic but not realized what he saw until he had his most brilliant day where he finally grasps what happened. Seems plausible and fits in with just drawing on existing knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 Quote The Diagram was not perfect, however. They caught errors in it now and then. Or . . . not truly errors, just missed guesses. Taravangian had been supremely brilliant that day, but he had not been able to see the future. He had made educated guesses—very educated—and had been right an eerie amount of the time. But the farther they went from that day and the knowledge he’d had then, the more the Diagram needed tending and cultivation to stay on course. Taravangian says that he did not have the ability to see the future himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 57 minutes ago, nervousnerd said: Taravangian says that he did not have the ability to see the future himself. That is only his opinion on the matter, but fairly likely to be correct, if he still thought it after the smartest day after the Diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 9 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said: That is only his opinion on the matter, but fairly likely to be correct, if he still thought it after the smartest day after the Diagram. Except he cannot remember that day, so his views on it could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, Argel said: Except he cannot remember that day, so his views on it could be wrong. True, that's what I implied. However, what his opinion indicates is that there is no information in the Diagram that he doesn't think couldn't have come from the knowledge he knew before that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 That's fair, but it could be arrogance or an assumption. He's not a reliable source. He's probably not going to seriously consider if he was manipulated. If Khriss or maybe even Jasnah believed him, that would be more credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said: True, that's what I implied. However, what his opinion indicates is that there is no information in the Diagram that he doesn't think couldn't have come from the knowledge he knew before that day. That is not the case. If I lived in a culture that didn't like seeing the future and this day happened to me, I wouldn't say I saw the future even to myself. I would see a few things that I could understand from my level of connections and assume that smart me had just figured everything else out. I wouldn't want to be associated with seeing the future, even to myself. Where would he EVER have figured out when the Everstorm would hit? He knew that event in advance. He can't have 'figured out' first that the pashmen were just formless Listeners, that the Listeners would decide to use a form of power, that this form would be Stormform, and the exact date they would summon the storm. That goes beyond intelligence into foreseeing the future. Whether I am right and he got that because he saw the SR and therefor knew the Listeners, or some other future sight, he definitely did see the future. You cannot explain him knowing when the Everstorm would happen as intelligence. There are other reasonable guesses he could have made about them that have totally different outcomes. To go back on topic, I agree this epigraph is talking about Hoid. He is THE wanderer after all. Him being present opens up many possibilities depending on how he meddles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Djarskublar said: I wouldn't say I saw the future even to myself. Except that we can see Taravangian is not that hung up on religion. But ego/pride likely suffices. Who wants to admit they were manipulated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Krooked Posted September 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 You make a lot of sense, for a lighteyes..... Lol. I agree and also have wondered how Mr. T knew about the storm. The dates for the storm, or most of the other things that he knew, but would have absolutely no knowledge of (like the Unmade). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 2, 2016 Report Share Posted September 2, 2016 4 hours ago, King Krooked said: You make a lot of sense, for a lighteyes..... Lol. I agree and also have wondered how Mr. T knew about the storm. The dates for the storm, or most of the other things that he knew, but would have absolutely no knowledge of (like the Unmade). He might've heard about the Unmade from the Death Rattles or from old stories and accounts from the time of the Desolations. Dates for the highstorms isn't that hard, it's been stated and proven that they can be mathematically predicted, so at the level of intelligence he was at, it probably wasn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted September 3, 2016 Report Share Posted September 3, 2016 8 hours ago, Djarskublar said: Where would he EVER have figured out when the Everstorm would hit? He knew that event in advance. He can't have 'figured out' first that the pashmen were just formless Listeners, that the Listeners would decide to use a form of power, that this form would be Stormform, and the exact date they would summon the storm. That goes beyond intelligence into foreseeing the future. Whether I am right and he got that because he saw the SR and therefor knew the Listeners, or some other future sight, he definitely did see the future. You cannot explain him knowing when the Everstorm would happen as intelligence. There are other reasonable guesses he could have made about them that have totally different outcomes. You're forgetting something, though. He already knew the world was in danger. That's why he went for the Old Magic in the first place. Gavilar was having visions and had involved Mr. T in what he saw. We have to assume they gathered as much information as they could even before the Day of Brilliance, which could have very well given him the information to deduce what was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 3, 2016 Report Share Posted September 3, 2016 I wonder if Gavilar got to the writing a number on the wall stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Renarin was the one likely doing those (emphasis added): Quote [Renarin] screamed a pleading cry, then stood and cracked something against the wall. A rock? Where had he gotten it? He gripped the thing in a gauntleted hand and began to write. Shocked, Shallan took a step toward him. A sequence of numbers? All zeros. WoR p1019 Kindle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 Do you mean instead of Dalinar? But wasn't it proven that Dalinar's own knife which was on his person was used and wasn't Renarin not present some of the times it was done? I was unaware of this. I'm not entirely sure I can agree without more proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 4, 2016 Report Share Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, nervousnerd said: Do you mean instead of Dalinar? But wasn't it proven that Dalinar's own knife which was on his person was used and wasn't Renarin not present some of the times it was done? I was unaware of this. I'm not entirely sure I can agree without more proof. As far as we know Renarin did all the writing...using his Father's knife. He wanted to inform about the danger but He doesn't want to be recognized as informations' source Edited September 4, 2016 by Yata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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