On Honorblades And Spren

[PantsForSquares he/him]

So, yesterday night, during a particularly interesting moment of clarity brought on by a lack of sleep and energy drinks, I finally stumbled on what I consider to be my biggest theory related to the Cosmere as a whole.

That is, I have a pretty solid idea on how Honorblades function.

So, let's get down to business, and take a look at the facts that we know.

1. We know that spren (but only certain types) are able to imitate what the Honorblades are capable of.
2. We know that most of the spren are made from either Honor, Cultivation, or both (I'm not including Voidspren here). There are even some pre-Shattering ones hanging about.
3. We know that some spren, like the honorspren, are actually Splinters of Honor (Syl is a "little piece," I believe the term is).
4. Similarly, there are other spren who either Splinters of Honor, Splinters of Cultivation, or quite possibly both.
5. Splinters are primarily things of the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms, and not so much Physical. (Source)
6. We know, from Warbreaker, that Splinters can be made from living Shards of their own free will.
   1. Odium just likes Splintering Shards so that he doesn't absorb them, and so it's immensely difficult for others to seize that power.

So, with these facts assembled, I'd like to make the following proposition: Honorblades are Splinters of Honor.

Simply put, the honorspren (as an example) were able to mimic what the Honorblades did in the form of the Nahel bond. If that is the case, then there must be some similarity between them (ie, Jezrien's blade and an honorspren would both bond to someone's Spiritweb in the same place). However, there are some key differences, and that's where things get interesting.

From what I can gather, the Honorblades lack any form of Intent, or their Intent is not particularly relevant. This is presumably designed by Tanavast, as the Honorblades are capable of bonding to any individual and granting them access to Surgebinding. The spren, on the other hand, can use their bonded individual's alignment with their Intent (ie, adherence to their  Words) in order to greatly increase the efficiency with which Investiture is processed and controlled. So, in exchange for being available for virtually anyone to use, the Honorblades lack the ability to process Stormlight as effectively as a Radiant who is fully attuned with their spren's Intent.

I've got some further speculations, but these are mostly rough ideas, and heavily rely upon further understanding of the Spiritweb and the Spiritual Realm. Since these aren't subjects we fully understand yet, it's something I'll reserve for a later date.

[Spoolofwhool]

I hate to blow a large portion of this theory away, but there's a WoB that you don't bond honorblades. They just give the specific surgebinding abilities to whoever is using it. 

Second error. Splinters are self-aware pieces of a shard's power. We have not seen anything which indicates that Honorblades are self-aware. As such, I don't think the Honorblades are splinters of Honor. Pieces of his power, and shaped by him, yes, but not splinters. 

Good thought though. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[PantsForSquares he/him]

I'm more using "bond" in the sense that there's some sort of link that's formed when a person wields an Honorblade. It's not the Nahel bond, that's a given, but there has to be a link of some kind that provides access to the Surges in the first place. I went with "bond" because it's using existing terminology, but I can change it to something less confusing. Think of an Honorblade's bond as being a universal attachment to someone's Spiritweb (at the cost of not being permanent), whereas a Nahel bond requires Spiritweb damage to create a more permanent bond (so long as the Intent of the spren is adhered to).

As for your second point, the idea that Splinters need to be self-aware comes from observation of the Seons and Skaze of Sel, and the spren of Roshar. However, we also have another example of Splinters that are not self-aware - at least, not in the sense that we perceive it: Divine Breaths. These allow the Returned to, well, return to Nalthis, but require the consumption of Breaths in order to sustain themselves. Honorblades, as far as my best guess goes, functions in much the same way: They provide Surgebinding to anyone who can use them, at the expense of an increased cost of Stormlight.

One of the potential speculations that I left out here is the possibility that self-aware Splinters (like spren) can exchange their presence (I want to say Connection, but I'm not sure if that's entirely correct) between the Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual Realms. This results in things like memory loss for spren*, for example. However, Honorblades, which are - under this framework - explicitly created to be highly Spiritual (to easily grant Surgebinding) and somewhat Physical (because they have physical forms), come with a greatly diminished Cognitive aspect. As such, they lack the awareness to alter their own capabilities.

Dead Nahel spren are sort of a sad exception to this, with no Physical presence beyond their Shardblade, and no apparent Cognitive presence beyond the sheer shock of having the Nahel bond be suddenly severed.

*Wyndle is a special case: Since Lift partially exists in the Cognitive Realm, this should allow Wyndle to bond to her without sacrificing his Cognitive presence.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, PantsForSquares said:

I'm more using "bond" in the sense that there's some sort of link that's formed when a person wields an Honorblade. It's not the Nahel bond, that's a given, but there has to be a link of some kind that provides access to the Surges in the first place. I went with "bond" because it's using existing terminology, but I can change it to something less confusing. Think of an Honorblade's bond as being a universal attachment to someone's Spiritweb (at the cost of not being permanent), whereas a Nahel bond requires Spiritweb damage to create a more permanent bond (so long as the Intent of the spren is adhered to).

If there isn't a bond, then don't say there is. Confusing and incorrectly implicative terminology should be avoided. 

1 hour ago, PantsForSquares said:

As for your second point, the idea that Splinters need to be self-aware comes from observation of the Seons and Skaze of Sel, and the spren of Roshar. However, we also have another example of Splinters that are not self-aware - at least, not in the sense that we perceive it: Divine Breaths. These allow the Returned to, well, return to Nalthis, but require the consumption of Breaths in order to sustain themselves. Honorblades, as far as my best guess goes, functions in much the same way: They provide Surgebinding to anyone who can use them, at the expense of an increased cost of Stormlight.

No. Splinters need to be self-aware. Please do your research regarding this as Brandon has even explicitly said so: 

Quote

Please explain what you will about Shards and Splintering and Slivers.

BRANDON SANDERSON

An event happened long ago which destroyed something called Adonalsium into 16 pieces. And 16 people took up that power.

QUESTION

People?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I call all intelligent species people. If someone takes up the power and lets go of it, it has the effect much like a balloon that's been stretched and then the air is let out. I call that a Sliver; based off of the Lord Ruler calling himself the "Sliver of Infinity". The Lord Ruler is someone who held the power and then released it. And so, current Slivers are the Lord Ruler, Kelsier, and there may be others around who at one point held the power and let go of it. A Splinter is a term used by certain people in the cosmere for power of Adonalsium which has no person caring for it, no... no person holding it, which has attained self-awareness.

WETLANDER

So is that like the mists and the Well? Are they...

BRANDON SANDERSON

They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters.

 

WETLANDER

Are the highstorms related to the splintering of Honor?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. You have seen splinters quite a bit on various planets

Returned are splinters because the Divine Breath is self-aware and is controlling the body. I believe that whatever impressions a returned has of its life are just based off of cognitive fragments attached to the body. 

[Jondesu he/him]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If there isn't a bond, then don't say there is. Confusing and incorrectly implicative terminology should be avoided. 

No. Splinters need to be self-aware. Please do your research regarding this as Brandon has even explicitly said so: 

Returned are splinters because the Divine Breath is self-aware and is controlling the body. I believe that whatever impressions a returned has of its life are just based off of cognitive fragments attached to the body. 

Let's be polite here.  @PantsForSquares was correct that there's obviously a bond of some type, just not a Bond.  It's like the difference between having a shard of glass and a Shard of Adolnasium.  Same word, different applications.  If there wasn't some type of bond, Szeth wouldn't be able to dismiss and recall the blade, since he's not touching it during that time, so it's not simply "works while it's in your hand".

As for the issue of Splinters being self-aware of not, Brandon has not been as consistent as you state, and has not confirmed that the Divine Breath is self-aware (in fact, I believe it was at least strongly implied to be the opposite).  It's possible that the Honorblades are something like Splinters, but since they're not self-aware they would indeed have a different name, but I would not rely on that WoB you quoted, since it's really more subjective (he notes it's a "term used by certain people in the cosmere", specifically, which means it's an in-universe term and therefore there may be mistakes by those who use the term in-universe).

jW

Edited September 2, 2016 by Jondesu
Clarification on the Bond section

[Yata he/him]

Actually the bonding Honorblade is quite doubtful at this point I remember a WoB who said you actually don't bond an Honorblade.

anyway as @Jondesu said the problem with the Divine Breath is a bit hard to solve, some have theorizated that a Returned is actually a Divine Breath with some imprint of the former human who inhabit the corpse...This dea may have some merit, but I don't think it the right one.

My interpretation (that can be better or worse than other ideas) is about the timing and a Divine-Breath's lifecycle. I explain myself better, Endowment wants to create a new Returned. Find the right candidate, made a deal with him/her and Splinter a part of the Shard's power to made a Divine Breath. This DB separated by anykind of control began to develop a "mind" (probably a divine breath keeps more Investiture than Radiant Spren, Seon and Skaze) but soon it will be bonded with the Returned-candidate. It now has again a mind to guide its and the developing mind stop to grow.

This to say that to me, the divine breath have a low level probably more instinct than thought mind.

PS:

6 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

*Wyndle is a special case: Since Lift partially exists in the Cognitive Realm, this should allow Wyndle to bond to her without sacrificing his Cognitive presence.

This is false. The peculiar state of Lift doesn't change anything in Wyndle's transition. Himself said He took precautions to avoid the problem but at the end He failed in preserving his own mind

[PantsForSquares he/him]

6 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

If there isn't a bond, then don't say there is. Confusing and incorrectly implicative terminology should be avoided.

I'm using bond out of consistency, actually. It's clear that there's some sort of link between the Honorblades and their users that are formed upon wielding them. I'm using "bond" because the term is used across the board. Fabrials require a bound spren; Listeners bind spren to themselves to change forms; Shardblades are bound (though we now know that they're just dead spren simulating a small part of the Nahel bond), and there are the Nahel bonds that can be made between spren and people.

This "bond" that is forged between an Honorblade and its user isn't the Nahel bond - that much should be fairly obvious. However, in order for the spren to create a derivative of it (the Nahel bond), there has to be some degree of similarity between the two. But, after further consideration, the word "bond" is more than appropriate. I should probably call it something else to avoid confusion with the Nahel or Listener bonding methods. Honorbond, perhaps?

2 hours ago, Yata said:

Actually the bonding Honorblade is quite doubtful at this point I remember a WoB who said you actually don't bond an Honorblade.

anyway as @Jondesu said the problem with the Divine Breath is a bit hard to solve, some have theorizated that a Returned is actually a Divine Breath with some imprint of the former human who inhabit the corpse...This dea may have some merit, but I don't think it the right one.

My interpretation (that can be better or worse than other ideas) is about the timing and a Divine-Breath's lifecycle. I explain myself better, Endowment wants to create a new Returned. Find the right candidate, made a deal with him/her and Splinter a part of the Shard's power to made a Divine Breath. This DB separated by anykind of control began to develop a "mind" (probably a divine breath keeps more Investiture than Radiant Spren, Seon and Skaze) but soon it will be bonded with the Returned-candidate. It now has again a mind to guide its and the developing mind stop to grow.

I'm of the opinion that the Divine Breath is what creates a Returned's body, as we know that they essentially look however they imagined themselves to be before they died. In essence, it acts as a tether between the Cognitive shadow of a dead person, and the Physical Realm, in addition to granting the Fifth Heightening*. Along the Splinter design parameters I mentioned above, it seems like the Divine Breath is heavily Physical (supplying a Physical form, and providing the ability to heal any wound, at the cost of the DB) and and somewhat Spiritual, in the manner that all Breaths are. I'm not sure where they lie Cognitively, as they do seem to have some minor form of Intent (enough to nudge the Returned along Endowment's own plans), but it seems that it isn't significant enough - and that's where the Cognitive shadow comes in.

*If Heightening is linked to the total magnitude of the Breaths possessed by a person, and not their number of Breaths, then a single Divine Breath, with all of its Investiture, would probably contribute far more than one normal Breath.

Anyways, my point is that it should be fairly obvious, given the difference between the spren/seons/skaze, and the DB, that Shards can intentionally design their Splinters. The two types of Splinters that we have observed that come from a living Shard (Splinters and Divine Breaths) are unique in that regard. There are only nine types of spren (excluding greatspren) that can form the Nahel bond, and there are unique spren that can bond with Bondsmiths, for instance. This is part of the reasoning behind the idea that Honorblades are Splinters of Honor.

The other part of the logic results from the following question: What similarities exist between the spren and the Honorblades that allow them both to grant Surgebinding? We know that

2 hours ago, Yata said:

This is false. The peculiar state of Lift doesn't change anything in Wyndle's transition. Himself said He took precautions to avoid the problem but at the end He failed in preserving his own mind

That's because Wyndle has to meet Lift "part of the way": He doesn't exhibit the full-fledged memory loss that Syl and Pattern have - he even remembers what his job was, for instance, and how Investiture works. With all other Surgebinders - Ym, Shallan, Kaladin - their spren all seem to display a startling lack of mental capabilities upon initially being bound - especially compared to Lift and Wyndle. The only significant difference between Lift and the other Surgebinders is her rather odd state of existence in the Cognitive Realm, due to her request with the Nightwatcher.\

[Magestar he/him]

The footnote to the WoB Spool provided says that Brandon misunderstood the question and later said that yes, you could (lower case bond mulitple honorblades.  There is some kind of bond going on there, because in the re-vamped WoR scene (spoilers),

Spoiler

When Szeth's hand is cut, he loses the 'bond' to the Honorblade, and cannot use it's power to escape.  At least, that was what was implied, and there might be a WoB on it... I'm not sure.  But the fact that Szeth can use his Surgebinding powers when he is not using the sword tells me that there is some kind of (lower case bond.

Also, I'm giong to have to agree with Pants here. Wow, that was a weird sentence.  But I think that Wyndle is meeting Lift halfway.  The only other types of explenation I can think of is A; he has been bonded way longer than the other sprens we have seen, or B;  He is a different type of spren so his precautions worked.  Or his precautions worked anyway.

I seriously doubt, however, that Honorblades are splinters.  I think we might need another name for what they are, though, otherwise we are going to have problems.  I'm pretty sure Honorblades have more investiture than Shardblades, at least dead ones, so we need to know if they have more than a live one.  If they do, then they basically have to be splinters, because they have more investiture than another splinter, and therefore should be accumulating intellect.  

This is a good theory, but it has some major holes.  I think the splinter thing is the biggest one, and I'm not sure why you guys are so caught up in the use of the word bond.  It sems find to me, especially considering the footnote of that WoB.

Would it be odd if Honorblades/Heralds are one cohesive splinter, that can be seperated?  As is, the Heralds are the self aware splinters, but the swords are just a manifestation of there power?  This is a bit difficult to explain, but it seems like an interesting thought to me.

[PantsForSquares he/him]

The primary reason I came up with the conclusion that Honorblades are Splinters is as follows:

First, we know that the nine major spren types and the greatspren created the Nahel bond in imitation of  what the Honorblades do. Second, spren are known to be fragments of Honor's, Cultivation's, Odium's, or even Adonalsium's (although this is uncommon) power. Some such spren, such as honorspren, are Splinters of these. I figured that only certain Splinters were compatible for the purpose of Nahel bonding, explaining why there are only 9 types of Nahel spren. Since the Nahel bond was made in imitation of the Honorblades, it stands to reason that there is some manner of structural similarity between Honorblades and spren. The largest similarity that comes to mind is that Honorblades are Splinters. I concluded that Honorblades intentionally were made with a heavily limited Cognitive aspect in order to prevent the formation of an Intent. Whether this is a drawback of Tanavast designing them to be usable by anyone remains to be seen, but it would explain an Honorblade's inability to change shape like a living Shardblade (and we know that the Honorblades aren't dead spren).

Again, the biggest gap in my theory comes from a lack of understanding as to how Splinters work. We have four or five examples, depending on how valid this theory is (Seons, Skaze, spren, Divine Breaths, (maybe) Honorblades). Beyond that, I can only make conjecture based upon observations, like how spren have their Cognitive aspects reduced when they travel to the Physical Realm, for instance.

20 minutes ago, Magestar said:

Would it be odd if Honorblades/Heralds are one cohesive splinter, that can be seperated?  As is, the Heralds are the self aware splinters, but the swords are just a manifestation of there power?  This is a bit difficult to explain, but it seems like an interesting thought to me.

If the Heralds have the Cognitive aspect that would have normally gone into the Honorblades, that could account for the Blades' lack of Intent. There also has to be some rationale behind the Heralds' agelessness, at any rate.

Edited September 2, 2016 by PantsForSquares

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, Magestar said:

Would it be odd if Honorblades/Heralds are one cohesive splinter, that can be seperated?  As is, the Heralds are the self aware splinters, but the swords are just a manifestation of there power?  This is a bit difficult to explain, but it seems like an interesting thought to me.

I think there is something to this. When Honor talks of the KR and how the Spren figured out what he did with the Heralds and imitated it he may mean both giving humanoids powers and the blade. For the spren the bonding comes first, they give something of themselves to their surgebinding buddy. Honor probably invested some of his power in them or whatever term is most appropriate which is why they live for thousands of years and at least one has super reflexes.

The Diagram seems to think there is a bond involving the Honorblades. From the WOR chapter 78 epigraph. http://coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Epigraphs

"Ah but they were left behind. It is obvious from the nature of the bond. But where where where where? Set off. Obvious. Realization like apricity. They are with the Shin. We must find one. Can we make to use a Truthless? Can we craft a weapon?"

No one else can truly Bond with Honorblades because the Heralds are bonded to them and perhaps the blade and are perhaps part of the same whole. I think the Heralds were pre-existing people were offered the chance to become Heralds and accepted and not purely a part of Honor made into a human as Jezrien speaks of taking up the burden willingly in the prelude to WoK. They clearly were altered by Honor and the nahel bond may be the closest imitation to it that the spren can produce.

[RYANHOME he/him]

@Child of Hodor you said something interesting. The Heralds are bonded to the honorblades. If shardblades are based off there design shouldn't they be usable by other people? Maybe once the Heralds left the blades it's possible for others to use the honorblades.

Ps: I like this theory 

[Yata he/him]

Months ago, I was convinced that the Honorblade-Herald relationship was exacly the same of Divine Breath-Returned's one and also if the Heralds left them, they are still bonded...other users are just borrow the Honorblade. Then someone give me quite counterproofs (now I don't remember what they were) that made me discharge the idea (for the one interested I now think more about "Honorblades are some kind of divine Fabrial and the Heralds a Great Roshar's keeper from before H&C arrive").

 

 

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, RYANHOME said:

@Child of Hodor you said something interesting. The Heralds are bonded to the honorblades. If shardblades are based off there design shouldn't they be usable by other people? Maybe once the Heralds left the blades it's possible for others to use the honorblades.

Ps: I like this theory 

A lot of rambling by me below. The conclusion is that I agree that the nahel bond is imitating what the Honorblade does to whoever wields it not what Honor did to the Heralds themselves. The Heralds were imbued with special powers by Honor that they can use regardless of having the blade. There is a supernatural connection between the Heralds and their blades. The blades probably still will disappear when the corresponding Herald dies, as far as we know none have yet so this hasn't been tested.

 

Shardblades can be used by other people. The king let's other people practice with his blade and Aladar lends his out in battle and oversees the battle from the rear. Granted they are "dead" spren, but Honor is dead too. If you mean why can't more than one person bond the same spren it may be that they just aren't powerful enough.

It's true that Heralds can't use surge-binding without the Honorblades, but they have other abilities. So the surgebinding comes with the Honorblade itself. It seems to automatically grant powers to whoever is carrying it around (we don't know how long they have to hold it for the powers to be granted) and that is what spren are imitating with the Nahel bond. WoB:

  Hide contents

Rybal
Q:  Can the Heralds Surgebind without their Blades and if not are they under the same restrictions that others are.
A:  The Heralds without their Blades are incapable of the powers you're familiar with.  It doesn't mean there aren't other things they can do.

 

From the prelude we know that Honorblades disappear when the Herald dies and goes back to "Damnation" suggesting that they are supernaturally connected. Honor made them specifically for each each Herald and didn't have the foresight (he admits he's bad at that) to see the Heralds willingly giving up their blades so he didn't account for it. Perhaps that's why the blades don't disappear when the Heralds drop them, but do when they "die". Because the Heralds aren't truly dead and will come back so there was never intended to be the option of a new wielder of the Honorblades.

In other words, Honor made it so that whoever wielded the blade got the power because he assumed the Heralds would always be the wielders. He didn't foresee the Heralds giving them away so he didn't see the need to safeguard against "unauthorized" users.

 

[PantsForSquares he/him]

2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

From the prelude we know that Honorblades disappear when the Herald dies and goes back to "Damnation" suggesting that they are supernaturally connected. Honor made them specifically for each each Herald and didn't have the foresight (he admits he's bad at that) to see the Heralds willingly giving up their blades so he didn't account for it. Perhaps that's why the blades don't disappear when the Heralds drop them, but do when they "die". Because the Heralds aren't truly dead and will come back so there was never intended to be the option of a new wielder of the Honorblades.

In other words, Honor made it so that whoever wielded the blade got the power because he assumed the Heralds would always be the wielders. He didn't foresee the Heralds giving them away so he didn't see the need to safeguard against "unauthorized" users.

So that means that the Honorblades' ability to freely grant Surgebinding to any user is more of an unintended side effect. They were initially meant to just be the Heralds' weapons, as they were Spiritually attached in such a way that they wouldn't reappear upon "death." But once willingly given up, they could be used by any potential wielder.

I'll definitely agree that there's something else going on with the Heralds, though. Syl comments that the Honorblades use a "dangerous amount" of Stormlight. If this is the case, then there's no way someone with an Honorblade alone would be able to keep up with the Radiants. I suspect that one of the Heralds' powers increases the efficiency of the Honorblades, allowing them to be used on the same level as Radiants who had sworn their fourth or fifth Ideal. I can definitely get behind the idea that the Heralds and Honorblades were designed as a set, but I'm not entirely sure if the Heralds are Splinters (I'd imagine that being a cognitively-aware Splinter, and therefore having an Intent, would prevent them from breaking the Oathpact). I'd call them Slivers, but I don't feel that it's the right term.

[goody153]

12 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

 

From the prelude we know that Honorblades disappear when the Herald dies and goes back to "Damnation" suggesting that they are supernaturally connected. Honor made them specifically for each each Herald and didn't have the foresight (he admits he's bad at that) to see the Heralds willingly giving up their blades so he didn't account for it. Perhaps that's why the blades don't disappear when the Heralds drop them, but do when they "die". Because the Heralds aren't truly dead and will come back so there was never intended to be the option of a new wielder of the Honorblades.

In other words, Honor made it so that whoever wielded the blade got the power because he assumed the Heralds would always be the wielders. He didn't foresee the Heralds giving them away so he didn't see the need to safeguard against "unauthorized" users.

 

Yeah this makes total sense. I like this theory.

[Yata he/him]

12 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

but I'm not entirely sure if the Heralds are Splinters (I'd imagine that being a cognitively-aware Splinter, and therefore having an Intent, would prevent them from breaking the Oathpact). I'd call them Slivers, but I don't feel that it's the right term.

A splinter is something that was never be Human (or mortal)...Therefore have some families among the Heralds (for example Jezriem is the father of Ash) disprove their as a Splinter.

About the Sliver:

Quote

ERI PL (): Is Jezrien a Sliver?

BRANDON SANDERSON: Jezrien is one of the Heralds, but has never held the power of an entire Shard himself. (So no, not a Sliver.)

source

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Yata

[Spoolofwhool]

13 hours ago, PantsForSquares said:

I'd call them Slivers, but I don't feel that it's the right term.

A sliver is a regular being which has held a significant portion of a shard's power, but then released it. However the power left a mark on the being. An example of a sliver is Rashek, TLR after ascending.

[PantsForSquares he/him]

3 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

A sliver is a regular being which has held a significant portion of a shard's power, but then released it. However the power left a mark on the being. An example of a sliver is Rashek, TLR after ascending.

With that WoB up above, Sliver is definitely not the right term. It's obvious that the Heralds are different, but we lack a term for Invested people that isn't Sliver.

If anything, the Heralds are like what Elend was after burning lerasium: Powerful, and with an altered Spiritweb, but not Splinters. There probably is a term for it, but we haven't seen it.

[Darkness he/him]

24 minutes ago, PantsForSquares said:

With that WoB up above, Sliver is definitely not the right term. It's obvious that the Heralds are different, but we lack a term for Invested people that isn't Sliver.

If anything, the Heralds are like what Elend was after burning lerasium: Powerful, and with an altered Spiritweb, but not Splinters. There probably is a term for it, but we haven't seen it.

I'd call them "awesome", but that can only apply to one person...

[Magestar he/him]

8 hours ago, Yata said:

A splinter is something that was never be Human (or mortal)...Therefore have some families among the Heralds (for example Jezriem is the father of Ash) disprove their as a Splinter.

This sounds right, but do you have a WoB?  Because I thought that the returned were splinters... Or at least divine breaths are?  If you invest someone with a splinter, what does that make them?  A splinter-sliver?

[Yata he/him]

@Magestar sure (sorry I often forget to put the references):

Quote

PUCK

"How is a Splinter different from a Sliver?

BRANDON SANDERSON

"Let me see... You have met splinters in Elantris, Warbreaker, and in Way of Kings. You have not met them in Mistborn."

PUCK

"I feel like we know that. So, qualitatively, what's the difference?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

"Qualitatively, they're reverses of one another. A Sliver is a human intelligence who has held the power and released it. A Splinter has never been human."

PUCK

"But it derives from a Shard's power."

BRANDON SANDERSON

"Yes. That's not it completely, but there's at least something to think about."

source

And to answer to your Returned-dilemma....The Divine Breath is a Endowment's Splinter.

3 minutes ago, Magestar said:

If you invest someone with a splinter, what does that make them?  A splinter-sliver?

I think no special name. It's simple someone who is bond or get a Splinters (for example you don't call a KR in any strange manner).

[Magestar he/him]

Huh.  So Returned, the KR, and people who have bonded Seons/Skaze are all people who have been 'bonded' to splinters.  But in two out of three cases, the splinters have gained sentience.

Something to think about.  People who hold Splinters are Bonded.  That's as good a name as any.

[Darkness he/him]

As far as I know, you could even make a case that all 3 of those splinters have gained sentience before bonding. We don't really have a conclusive WoB on what exactly happens with Divine Breaths and the Returned. For example, is Lightsong simply the person he used to be plus a large amount of investiture and memory loss? Or is he basically a splinter with some small vestige of his humanity clinging on and giving him sporadic memories?