Why Sel is location based.

[Djarskublar he/him]

I had a thought the other day, so here is a mini-theory regarding it. Let me know if you think it has any merit.

I think that the reason Selish magic is so heavily location based is because the Dor is in the CR, rather than the SR where it belongs. D&D may influence where it all comes from, but because the CR does have location as a dimension, I can see it causing the magic to be location oriented as well.

Well, that's basically it.

[cloudjumper he/him]

I don't know where, but I'm fairly sure that there's a WOB that says that the location based magic is because of Dominion being about territory or something.

[Djarskublar he/him]

Like I said in my post, I am fine with D&D being a part of it, but I think the intents of the Shards are reflected more in the way (and where) you manifest the magic. I am strictly talking about how you access the Dor. It is location based. I am talking less about where you get the power and more on where you use it. Selish magic tends to be extremely non-transportable. I think that is because your cognitive aspect needs to be in close proximity to the Dor to easily access it without a hack.

For example, ChayShan is probably usable anywhere on the planet if you know it. It probably works at the same power level. Leave Sel and it won't work properly since it is too far from the Dor to access it properly. That is my guess, anyway.

Dakhor monks we don't know a ton about, so I can't speculate how they would work off planet.

I think I saw a WoB that Forgery will wear off when off planet, and maybe even outside MaiPon. I don't remember which. I think it is because the seal loses its connection to the Dor, and therefore its trickle of power from it.

I would guess that the potions are actually really transportable, but you can only brew them in your homeland. They are already imbued with all the Investiture that they need, and you get the effect on quaffing. I think this because IIRC there wasn't any real ritual or form to drinking it, and it wouldn't really make sense for there to be anything the end user needs to do. The brewer already did the magic, the effect is just delayed.

And finally we come to AonDor. Elantrians appear to have a base power level when inside the Dor's influence. Using the massive Aon Rao known as Elantris buffs up the power. They just have it in their homeland for obvious reasons. I know Elantris was already there, that doesn't affect this point much. Once you leave the planet, though, and leave the Dor, you will run into problems. Galladon probably has to pull some hackery just to survive if he leaves.

Does that make more sense? I guess my first post was a bit detail sparse, but I wanted to see what some people thought before I typed something long, and I was in a rush.

Also, I think D&D may contribute to this as well. It may be why some of the magic is only usable in a certain area.

[Yata he/him]

9 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

I think that the reason Selish magic is so heavily location based is because the Dor is in the CR, rather than the SR where it belongs. D&D may influence where it all comes from, but because the CR does have location as a dimension, I can see it causing the magic to be location oriented as well.

Actually this is a well knowed theory, if you search in the Selish topic of the last year (or at least last months) you will find tons of similar explainations.

Anyway I agree with the "distance from the Dor" problem...But this is actually just half of the problem. This explain where you can't use Selish magics off world and how certain areas may have more Dor than other. But don't actual explain the reason you can't obtain "foreing" Dor.

Someone tried to theorizate the existence of something like "NationSpren" and the Sel's magic users are bonded with their own nationSpren. But this idea has also other problems

SA Spoiler:

Spoiler

Like a RK with his Radiant Spren, and like this Rosharan case. More the partners are far away less the bond work and the powers become weaker.

I think we may wait another couple on months, where we will recive relevant Informations about Sel and its misteries (Arcanum Unbounded will be avaliable the 8 November)

[Shardbearer he/him]

On 8/31/2016 at 8:35 PM, cloudjumper said:

I don't know where, but I'm fairly sure that there's a WOB that says that the location based magic is because of Dominion being about territory or something.

I don't think this is the case. In fact I'm pretty sure the theory has been debunked. 

This was a theory that I used to espouse which was based on the fact that one definition of Dominion is:

2.

the territory of a sovereign or government.

 

 

I'm trying to remember what BranDon said in response to questions about this theory, but I'm pretty sure he said it's wrong or at least hinted that it wasn't quite right

[Jondesu he/him]

On 8/31/2016 at 11:35 PM, cloudjumper said:

I don't know where, but I'm fairly sure that there's a WOB that says that the location based magic is because of Dominion being about territory or something.

 

12 hours ago, Shardbearer said:

I don't think this is the case. In fact I'm pretty sure the theory has been debunked. 

This was a theory that I used to espouse which was based on the fact that one definition of Dominion is:

2.

the territory of a sovereign or government.

 

 

I'm trying to remember what BranDon said in response to questions about this theory, but I'm pretty sure he said it's wrong or at least hinted that it wasn't quite right

I had posted my own theory about the meaning of Dominion in the case of the Shard, going from a more Biblical definition (one you might not find in many dictionaries since it's not common usage now).  Think of Genesis if you're familiar with it, and God giving Adam and Eve dominion over the land.  It was territory/governance, yes, but also a responsibility to tend and tame it (I was going to say cultivate, but of course that's another Shard).

I will say, though, that it's likely that the way magic is used on Sel changed dramatically with the shattering and the Dor being moved to the CR, unless it for some reason was already there in a more tame way.

jW

[Jazzy Kandra she/her]

On 9/5/2016 at 1:37 AM, Shardbearer said:

I don't think this is the case. In fact I'm pretty sure the theory has been debunked. 

This was a theory that I used to espouse which was based on the fact that one definition of Dominion is:

2.

the territory of a sovereign or government.

 

 

I'm trying to remember what BranDon said in response to questions about this theory, but I'm pretty sure he said it's wrong or at least hinted that it wasn't quite right

I think it's actually Dominion in a more cultural-linguistic sense. Sarene isn't from Arelon but Teod; however, her culture is part of the same cultural-linguistic block (which is arguably a diverse block in itself...), she and most of the people from her country could still become Elantrians just like the people from Arelon. The same for some of those from Duladel, like Galladon, depending on the amount of Aonic blood is in their veins, their cultural traditions (and how far removed those are from Aonic cultures), and their locations in Duladel. Basically, Investiture is distributed on Sel according to which cultural-linguistic block has hegemony in that given area. Just as Anglo-Western civilizations are all part of the same cultural-linguistic block, so are several countries (at times) on Sel. Sometimes its just small ethnic groups of in certain empires (as per forgers in Emperor's Soul). Either way, what matters is what cultural-linguistic block a person is from and if they are in/near a local where that culture is most dominant (in the minds' of the local citizenry). It means everything is determined in the Cognitive Realm...and I guess if you Elantrilized a culture, 'interesting' side effects might result (I do not  promote such behavior in real life, though).

Thus, access to a particular set of Dor-Investiture is not so much related to literal territory, but dominant culture and your personal connection to it. In other words: Connection to culture/social norms in these given countries is what's powering their Investiture. In the end it's all about Connection, because Connection rules.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Kandra-in-disguise

[Elenion he/him]

Disclaimer: I usually don't frequent the Sel boards and so may say things that have already been proven or debunked. Please bear with me.

I think that distance modifying the Dor's power is directly due to the influence of Elantris itself. Assume that there's a finite amount of Dor out there; after all, a Shard can't give access to too much of its investiture at once without severely weakening itself. An Aon that magnifies power, therefore, does so by drawing away investiture from other areas and concentrating it near the Aon. This could be happening on a worldwide scale with Elantris: Elantris greatly strengthens the Dor near it, at the cost of lessening the Dor away from it.

[Yata he/him]

@Elenion Elantris is indeed an AonDor booster. It greatly enhanced this specific sub-Magic System.

The rightfull "full power level" of AonDor is what we see in Teod or before Elantris's fix in Elantris (at that time, Elantris didn't work).

But the "distance problem" is something built into Sel Magic System and this effect is spread among all the  Selish Sub-Magic System (AonDor, Drahok, Forgery, Bloodsealing,ecc...).

Elantris alone doesn't explain the reason...much more because for 10 years Elantris didn't work

[william.sexton3 he/him]

3 hours ago, Yata said:

Elantris alone doesn't explain the reason...much more because for 10 years Elantris didn't work

But Elantris didn't work because it was the wrong Aon (the Aon without the chasm line).

[Yata he/him]

44 minutes ago, william.sexton3 said:

But Elantris didn't work because it was the wrong Aon (the Aon without the chasm line).

Yes but while Elantris didn't work...nothing suggest something different about any other magic in those timeframe or when Elantris was restored.

This probably mean that whatever effect Elantris has in manipulating Aonic's Dor...it's something relate only to this specific store of Dor.