Realmatically aspected Shards and Shardworlds?

[Mason Wheeler]

I've been thinking.  Each Shardworld seems to have a certain distinct "flavor" to it, and to a certain degree at least, these flavors seem to correspond with various Realms.

The most obvious example is Roshar.  It's clearly a Cognitive-aspected world, with cute little fragments of Cognitive stuff manifesting left and right.  Power comes from consciously espousing ideas and ideals and then living up to them.  30% of the Radiants (assuming an equal number in every Order, which we already know is not the case but oh well, close enough) have direct access to a power that transports them to the Cognitive Realm.  And our important characters have mental or neurological disorders showing up left and right.

• Kaladin: Depression
• Shallan: PTSD and repressed memories
• Renarin: Epilepsy
• Sadeas: Megalomania
• Elhokar: Paranoia
• Both Fallen Heralds that we've seen so far: Obsessive-compulsive behavior related to a perversion of the virtues that they used to embody
• Taravangian: Psychopathy that grows stronger as his IQ gets higher
• Lift: Not sure what to call it but something is clearly not quite right in her head

All of the people we've seen who have visited the Nightwatcher received some sort of mental alteration, from Taravangian (obvious) to Dalinar (a hole in not just his memory but the very concept of his dead wife) to that one guy who had his visual perception of the world turned upside-down.

Of the three local gods (yes, yes, I know about Braize and Odium, but he's still in the neighborhood and very important on Roshar), we don't know much about Cultivation, but we do know she's strongly associated with the Nightwatcher--the one doing all this mental trickery to people--in some way.  We know from Syl, an Honor-spren, that the basic Intent of Honor is to "bind things [and people] together," and presumably the whole "make oaths and live up to their ideals" comes from him.  And Odium embodies hatred, a strong emotion.

The most important weapons on Roshar are Shardblades, which hurt and kill living beings by doing neurological damage, rather than physical harm.

Conclusion: Roshar is clearly a Cognitive-aspected world, watched over by Cognitive-aspected Shard gods.

 

In strong contrast to Roshar, we have Scadrial, which is a very Physical place.  Its gods have Intents of physical destruction and physical preservation.  A person gains power through their bloodline, (as a byproduct of the physical act of procreation,) or less commonly by stabbing something big and solid into someone and stealing their power, then physically sticking it into yourself, and again blood is involved, both in the name (if you're familiar with Greek word roots this is immediately obvious) and in the manner of preserving Hemalurgical spikes.  Also, a physical substance (metal) is required for all uses of Scadrian magics.

We don't have little Cognitive ideas manifesting in the world; instead we get Investiture itself floating around as mists, a physical substance that can be interacted with.

While powers exist that touch on all three realms, the Physical powers seem very heavily represented.  All the most awesome things our heroes do seem to happen while flying, for example.  It becomes quite obvious once we get to the Wax & Wayne books where there are no Mistborn with all the powers that we're focusing on Physical powers: Wax's powers are to Push with Allomancy and store physical weight/mass with Feruchemy.  Wayne's are to change his physical progression through time with Allomancy, (and Marasi too!) and to store and tap physical health and well-being.

Also, our first villain, Miles, was a gold compounder.  Gold is all but useless for its Spiritual Allomancy; what makes it so powerful is the Feruchemical (physical health) side of things.  And when we end up fighting the Set, we see various different powers from all across the spectrum, but a lot of Coinshots and Thugs!

Despite Harmony's lamentation about slow progression, Scadrial is the world where physical science and technology seems to be advancing the most.

 

Nalthis is a very Spiritual place, with a God whose Intent is to give away Spiritual blessings of Investiture, and magic that deals with taking inanimate objects and Awakening them--putting a living spirit in them, using inherent Investiture that is drawn from the spirits of living beings.  (It's worth noting that in ancient Hebrew, the words for "breath" and "spirit" are the same.  Hence God formed man out of inanimate clay and put a spirit--the breath of life--into him to awaken him.)  Seeing the future is a very important part of Endowment's plan for the physical Gods she places among men.

 

Sel, on the other hand, seems to be a realmatically balanced place.  There are several different versions of magic there, but they all seem to be based on Connection to a physical land, and rely on forming physical symbols to create effects.  We see that it's possible to draw forth magic from the Dor by the use of Spiritual sacrifice (Dakhor) or Physical blood sacrifice (the Mysteries, presuming there's actually any power in them and they're not just a silly cult,) but knowledge, understanding, and logic (Cognitive stuff) are very important to be able to use Selish magics efficiently.  The Shardic gods of Devotion and Dominion are all about ways that people relate to each other--Connection, which is a very Spiritual thing--but their world doesn't seem like a highly Spiritual place the way Nalthis is.  Also WoB is that on Sel they have better knowledge of Realmatic Theory that most other places.  Perhaps this is because they're equally aspected towards all three Realms?

 

Anyway, this is my theory.  Any thoughts or comments are welcome!

[Spoolofwhool]

First thought. Shardblades do spiritual damage, not neurological damage, providing they're not Nightblood and not cutting through a dead person's head, unless the person is dead, in which case neurological damage is indeed being performed. In any case, I'd say there's a difference between neurological and cognitive. The former has to do with mental processes in the physical while the latter has to do with a being's existence in the cognitive realm. Other than that, I agree with your thoughts about Roshar, though I have to nitpick that Taravangian is afflicted with having empathy and intelligence inversely proportional, which isn't the same as psychopathy really. 

Regarding Scadrial. I disagree with your final point that having a lot of physical allomancers in the story lends credence to the theory that the world is more inclined towards the physical. All that shows is that is what people understands the most and finds most useful in combat. Also, temporal allomantic powers are more spiritual in nature than physical, so the Cadmium/Bendalloy point is a bit weak.

Nalthis makes sense, though I'm curious where the thought that Endowment can see the future came from.

Sel makes sense.

Overall, your theory that shardworlds are more aligned towards certain realms of realmatic theory than others is something I can agree with based. However, one correction I have to make is this:

2 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Conclusion: Roshar is clearly a Cognitive-aspected world, watched over by Cognitive-aspected Shard gods.

I don't think shards are aspected. They're basically just spiritual energy with a small cognitive intent attached. They cannot be aspected towards anything, and if Honor was invested on Scadrial instead of Roshar, it would cause a more physical manifestation of investiture.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Mason Wheeler]

21 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Also, temporal allomantic powers are more spiritual in nature than physical, so the Cadmium/Bendalloy point is a bit weak.

If so, why do they so strongly affect things like bullets, which have no soul?  The time bubbles seem like a purely Physical effect to me.  (Seeing through time via atium, gold, etc is different.)

[Yata]

28 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

If so, why do they so strongly affect things like bullets, which have no soul?  The time bubbles seem like a purely Physical effect to me.  (Seeing through time via atium, gold, etc is different.)

But Bullets have souls, like everything in the Cosmere. Everything (with some little exceptions) have a Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual Aspect.

[Djarskublar]

26 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

If so, why do they so strongly affect things like bullets, which have no soul?  The time bubbles seem like a purely Physical effect to me.  (Seeing through time via atium, gold, etc is different.)

Well technically they DO have a soul. Just a really tiny one... Everything has an aspect in all three realms. On the other hand, I agree with both of your points. Good thinking Mason, and solid corrections Spool. 

And Spool, Lightsong (that is his name, right?) saw a vision of the future before Returning, and seeing the difference he could make if he did Return was the reason he assented to doing so. Also, the dreams he recounted to his priests actually were mildly prophetic. Just not useful prophesies.

[Spoolofwhool]

58 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

If so, why do they so strongly affect things like bullets, which have no soul?  The time bubbles seem like a purely Physical effect to me.  (Seeing through time via atium, gold, etc is different.)

It's not the fact that they affect it, but the fact that they're related with time manipulation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like most abilities related to time, such as future sight, has to do with accessing the spiritual realm in order to gain the knowledge.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Mason Wheeler]

6 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

First thought. Shardblades do spiritual damage, not neurological damage,

I disagree.  The Rosharan people, with no understanding of modern biology and medicine, may say that a Shardblade "severs the soul," but the way the deathblow zone involves the entire spine makes it clear that the nervous system is directly involved in the damage being dealt by a Shardblade.

[Djarskublar]

4 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

I disagree.  The Rosharan people, with no understanding of modern biology and medicine, may say that a Shardblade "severs the soul," but the way the deathblow zone involves the entire spine makes it clear that the nervous system is directly involved in the damage being dealt by a Shardblade.

That isn't supported by evidence. The Blade fuzzes as it goes through living flesh. It is cutting the soul, not the body. There isn't a mark a modern forensic scientist could find other than some odd burns. No cuts. All that changes once something is no longer alive. Besides, I doubt it's just that their spine is cut. It's killing a few major organs regardless of where it cuts their torso, and the spine just clinches the deal. The sweeping strokes of Blade combat make it so that you won't get just a spine cut.

[Spoolofwhool]

4 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

I disagree.  The Rosharan people, with no understanding of modern biology and medicine, may say that a Shardblade "severs the soul," but the way the deathblow zone involves the entire spine makes it clear that the nervous system is directly involved in the damage being dealt by a Shardblade.

Explain how cutting the spine causes your eyes to burn and your body to turn gray. The fact that that happens supports the idea that something other than simple neurological damage is being dealt. Therefore, the proposed theory of spiritual damage being dealt is quite good. Also, it has been explained that cutting other living entities, including plants, has a similar effect. They don't have spines and synapses the same way humans do.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Mason Wheeler]

3 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

The Blade fuzzes as it goes through living flesh. It is cutting the soul, not the body. There isn't a mark a modern forensic scientist could find other than some odd burns. No cuts. All that changes once something is no longer alive. Besides, I doubt it's just that their spine is cut.

Where in my description of how Shardblades kill did I say anything about nerves being cut?  Please don't try to prove me wrong by refuting things I didn't actually claim.

[Spoolofwhool]

42 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Where in my description of how Shardblades kill did I say anything about nerves being cut?  Please don't try to prove me wrong by refuting things I didn't actually claim.

Then explain how there is neurological damage. Even if there is, it still doesn't explain how plants die when you cut them with a shardblade. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Yata]

A Shardblade cuts the Soul...we have a ton of WoB of that. For example:

Quote

QUESTION

A shardblade, what it does is cut off healing and control of an arm or whatever...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

QUESTION

So like if an arm got badly wounded and was bleeding out and needed to be amputated. If you went through it with a shardblade first, would that damage you in other ways?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No it wouldn't. What it does is sever the soul of the arm.

QUESTION

I know like in Mistborn, if you take bits of soul out of people it messes them up.

BRANDON SANDERSON

It does.

QUESTION

if you do it with shardblades...

BRANDON SANDERSON

It leaves a wound...

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Yata