You are Brandon Sanderson: How do you structure Oathbringer?

[galendo]

Okay, the title pretty much says it all.  You are suddenly Brandon Sanderson; how do you structure Oathbringer?  For the purposes of this discussion, you don't get to change anything that's already published, but you can ignore any WoBs, preview chapters, etc.

Here's what I'd do:

Prologue 
DALINAR, at Galivar's banquet scene.  He is DRUNK because of jealousy over his brother.  There is a HINT via the HERALDS about the bigger SA story, probably about why NALAN is hunting down Surgebinders.

Part 1
Main viewpoint characters: Dalinar, Shallan
NAVANI is busy teasing out the secrets of Urithiru at Dalinar's request.  SHALLAN is helping her with her search, but also meeting the GHOSTBLOODS on the sly.  They are also investigating Urithiru's secrets and know more than Navani and Shallan.  Meanwhile DALINAR is busy playing politics with the HIGHLORDS, many of whom suspect him of having SADEAS killed.  Both Shallan and Dalinar notice independently that ADOLIN is acting strangely, but they are all under a lot of STRESS and think nothing of it.  Meanwhile, IALAI is investigating her husband's death; her sources have noted some inconsistencies with Adolin.  Shallan discovers a MYSTERY and must chose to share it with Navani or the Ghostbloods.

Part 2
Main viewpoint characters: Dalinar (via flashbacks), Kaladin
KALADIN has arrived in Hearthstone, but he has USED UP all his Stormlight.  The town has been WRECKED by the Highstorm and Kaladin has no time to find his parents thanks to an attack by the the PARSHMEN, who are now turned into VOIDBRINGERS and causing CHAOS.  It is still the WEEPING, but even without Stormlight Kaladin must DO HEROIC STUFF.  Despite that, his father is NOT IMPRESSED by Kaladin's path in life.  After much interaction with ROSHONE, LAHARAL, and the PEOPLE of the town, Kaladin convinces everyone to leave for Alethkar, though the journey will be very DANGEROUS.  It IS.
Dalinar has FLASHBACKS, but because flashbacks are always MORE BORING than the main story, there are NOT TOO MANY of them.

Part 3
Main viewpoint characters: Dalinar, Shallan, Adolin
Shallan shares the mystery with Navani and Dalinar, but this causes friction with the Ghostbloods, many of whom now want her DEAD.  Shallan's BROTHERS arrive in Urithiru, but prove to be a millstone around her neck.  The Weeping ends, and Dalinar has more talky time with the STORMFATHER, who is SOMEWHAT INSANE.  Meanwhile, Adolin is PANICKY about what happened with Sadeas, especially since Ialai is furthering the rumors that Dalinar had Sadeas killed, and Adolin was the one who did it. The Kholins are all worried about Alethkar, since word has arrived by spanreel.
Dalinar is still having flashbacks, some of which involve QUEEN AESUELDAN, or whatever her name is, as a bit of a setup for the next part.

Part 4
Main viewpoint characters: Dalinar, Shallan, Adolin, Kaladin, Jasnah
JASNAH reaches Alethkar and find things a mess.  She starts communicating with the people in Urithiru and they all try to unlock the Oathgate, while also keeping riots and whatnot under control.  Kaladin shows up with a bunch of refugees and even more Voidbringers.  Shallan solves the secret to the mystery, which has to do with why the Recreance occurred and why the Oathgates were locked, along with the key to unlocking them.  Adolin fights off Ialai's assassins and comes further to grips with what happened.  Alethkar's inner turmoil is put under control and the queen in her place, but they are besieged by Voidbringers.  Things look GRIM.

Part 5
Main viewpoint characters: Dalinar, Shallan, Adolin, Kaladin, Jasnah
Ghostblood members try to assassinate Shallan before she can get the gate unlocked, but she says another truth and gets SHARDPLATE, which lets her open the gate in time.  The Alethi armies are ferried through, led by Dalinar, and arrive just in time for a big climactic battle to save the city.  Lots of glory for everyone.

Afterward
Main viewpoint characters: Wit
Spoilery cliffhanger for next book.

 

Okay, that's it.  There were originally going to be a lot more details, but I figure my summary's long enough as-is and shows the main highlights.  So now it's your turn: What would you do if you were in charge of writing Oathbringer?

[Djarskublar]

Ask a real Sanderson to do it, for I am unworthy!

Jokes aside, that sounds pretty good actually. I would have similar plot, but have Kal's family accept him. I would focus less on Ialai and Adolin and more on Dalinar and Elhokar.

Many of the things you describe have a good chance of actually happening.

[Toaster Retribution]

I think that Part 1 will be Dalinar/Shallan/Kaladin, just like in WoR.

Part 2 will have Dalinar (all parts will have Dalinar) along with the mystery POV. Then I think we will get Shallan, since Part 2 is supposed to be "lore heavy". If we get a fourth POV here, I think it is a toss up between Kaladin, Ialai, Adolin, Navani or Jasnah. Considering lore, I'd be willing to give Navani and Jasnah an edge, but I can see Ialai as well. 

Part 3, I'd guess Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin. In the Reddit update, I believe it looked like only one of the three primary characters would not be a POV in every part. Since I think Kaladin wont be in Part 2, both he and Shallan will be in the rest. Adolin have to be POV in at least one section, and 3 seems likely.

Part 4, Im going Dalinar, Shallan, Kaladin, with the possibility of someone else (Jasnah, Ialai, Szeth, Navani or Eshonai).

Part 5 will have Dalinar, Kal and Shallan, probably Adolin, and maybe Szeth or Eshonai.

Epilogue will be Sadeas corpse. If I were Brandon, I could pull off twists like this. 

Seriously then, epilogue is Wit.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Chull #445 said:

I think that Part 1 will be Dalinar/Shallan/Kaladin, just like in WoR.

Part 2 will have Dalinar (all parts will have Dalinar) along with the mystery POV. Then I think we will get Shallan, since Part 2 is supposed to be "lore heavy". If we get a fourth POV here, I think it is a toss up between Kaladin, Ialai, Adolin, Navani or Jasnah. Considering lore, I'd be willing to give Navani and Jasnah an edge, but I can see Ialai as well. 

Part 3, I'd guess Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin. In the Reddit update, I believe it looked like only one of the three primary characters would not be a POV in every part. Since I think Kaladin wont be in Part 2, both he and Shallan will be in the rest. Adolin have to be POV in at least one section, and 3 seems likely.

Part 4, Im going Dalinar, Shallan, Kaladin, with the possibility of someone else (Jasnah, Ialai, Szeth, Navani or Eshonai).

Part 5 will have Dalinar, Kal and Shallan, probably Adolin, and maybe Szeth or Eshonai.

Epilogue will be Sadeas corpse. If I were Brandon, I could pull off twists like this. 

Seriously then, epilogue is Wit.

Tertiary character #3 which has POV within Part 3 only most probably is Szeth. Brandon more or less confirmed this. Adolin has had POV in three Parts in the first two books, nothing indicates he has less going into book 3 which would give him POV in Part 2, 4 and 5, but I haven't gotten the confirmation of this yet. I'll try to, eventually, if I see the occasion to politely ask.

[DSC01]

I predict that the prologue will not be from Dalinar's perspective. It will still be that same scene, but it was Szeth's POV in Kaladin's book and Jasnah's POV in Shallan's book. Now, we know that both of the characters who got POVs for the the prologue in the first two books will get books in the future, but I don't know if we should trust to this pattern to hold. It could, though, because, even though not all of the 10 main characters were at the scene, it makes the most sense for the back 5 to have a different prologue scene.

If that is the case, I would say that Eshonai seems like a solid candidate for the POV (I don't specifically remember whether or not she was there, but I think she was part of the party). That would fill in a lot of information. Of course, if Brandon wants to start to really reveal things (and one should never put it past him), Shallash would be an interesting choice.

As for characters who are not among the 10, I could see Sadeas being interesting. Considering what we know right now, I would say that it wouldn't be very interesting, but I don't doubt that something we never saw coming could change that. It might be an interesting way to open, following his death at the close of WoR. I dunno. I think Eshonai is most likely.

[Toaster Retribution]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Tertiary character #3 which has POV within Part 3 only most probably is Szeth. Brandon more or less confirmed this. Adolin has had POV in three Parts in the first two books, nothing indicates he has less going into book 3 which would give him POV in Part 2, 4 and 5, but I haven't gotten the confirmation of this yet. I'll try to, eventually, if I see the occasion to politely ask.

You seem to have more information than me regarding this, so thanks for the correction.

And for the prologue, which I forgot, I dont think we will get Dalinar. He was drunk, and would not have much interesting stuff going on for him. I think we get Elhokar, Eshonai, Amaram, Sadeas or possibly, but a stretch, Nale.

[maxal]

2 hours ago, DSC01 said:

I predict that the prologue will not be from Dalinar's perspective. It will still be that same scene, but it was Szeth's POV in Kaladin's book and Jasnah's POV in Shallan's book. Now, we know that both of the characters who got POVs for the the prologue in the first two books will get books in the future, but I don't know if we should trust to this pattern to hold. It could, though, because, even though not all of the 10 main characters were at the scene, it makes the most sense for the back 5 to have a different prologue scene.

If that is the case, I would say that Eshonai seems like a solid candidate for the POV (I don't specifically remember whether or not she was there, but I think she was part of the party). That would fill in a lot of information. Of course, if Brandon wants to start to really reveal things (and one should never put it past him), Shallash would be an interesting choice.

As for characters who are not among the 10, I could see Sadeas being interesting. Considering what we know right now, I would say that it wouldn't be very interesting, but I don't doubt that something we never saw coming could change that. It might be an interesting way to open, following his death at the close of WoR. I dunno. I think Eshonai is most likely.

I agree with you. I would also add considering the fact Dalinar was passed out drunk on a table at the time of the murder, his POV seems unlikely. Eshonai and Gavilar are highly likely to happen and since it makes sense to have Gavilar as the last prologue combined with the idea Eshonai won't be the prologue in her focus book, she seems increasingly likely as the next one.

The last one could either be Shalash or Sadeas, but my personal pick would be Amaram. I really want to know what is going on in his head.

29 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

You seem to have more information than me regarding this, so thanks for the correction.

And for the prologue, which I forgot, I dont think we will get Dalinar. He was drunk, and would not have much interesting stuff going on for him. I think we get Elhokar, Eshonai, Amaram, Sadeas or possibly, but a stretch, Nale.

As I said, none is conclusive, but Brandon has announced he was currently working on Part 3. He also said he will need to take a break from writing it in order to write Szeth's flashbacks. He explained how, despite knowing the large lines, he feared he may end up canonizing small elements which may contradict the future flashbacks due to tiny detail he may not have foreseen. In other words, he fears for the continuity which is why he feels he needs to write Szeth flashback in order to write Part 3. While he hasn't confirmed anything, I took it Szeth most probably was tertiary character #3. If he had POV in Part 2, then Brandon would have needed to perform this flashback writing exercise before, if he didn't have POV before Part 4, then he wouldn't need to do it now... It thus imply he fits within the little box identifying the character having POV time within Part 3 and 5.

Of course, you understand this is my line of reasoning based on WoB. It seems to go down this way, but it may be Brandon is foreseeing Part 4 and feels right now is the best time to write the flashback sequence. I would only say it most likely bars Szeth as tertiary character #1 (not that I expected him to be) which I hope to be Adolin.

Elhokar is a nice pick. I hadn't thought of him, but he sure is a candidate. It all depends on the events the author wants to show us.

[Toaster Retribution]

27 minutes ago, maxal said:

I agree with you. I would also add considering the fact Dalinar was passed out drunk on a table at the time of the murder, his POV seems unlikely. Eshonai and Gavilar are highly likely to happen and since it makes sense to have Gavilar as the last prologue combined with the idea Eshonai won't be the prologue in her focus book, she seems increasingly likely as the next one.

The last one could either be Shalash or Sadeas, but my personal pick would be Amaram. I really want to know what is going on in his head.

As I said, none is conclusive, but Brandon has announced he was currently working on Part 3. He also said he will need to take a break from writing it in order to write Szeth's flashbacks. He explained how, despite knowing the large lines, he feared he may end up canonizing small elements which may contradict the future flashbacks due to tiny detail he may not have foreseen. In other words, he fears for the continuity which is why he feels he needs to write Szeth flashback in order to write Part 3. While he hasn't confirmed anything, I took it Szeth most probably was tertiary character #3. If he had POV in Part 2, then Brandon would have needed to perform this flashback writing exercise before, if he didn't have POV before Part 4, then he wouldn't need to do it now... It thus imply he fits within the little box identifying the character having POV time within Part 3 and 5.

Of course, you understand this is my line of reasoning based on WoB. It seems to go down this way, but it may be Brandon is foreseeing Part 4 and feels right now is the best time to write the flashback sequence. I would only say it most likely bars Szeth as tertiary character #1 (not that I expected him to be) which I hope to be Adolin.

Elhokar is a nice pick. I hadn't thought of him, but he sure is a candidate. It all depends on the events the author wants to show us.

Oh, okay. I have not seen that WoB, so that's why I did not know of Szeth.

About Elhokar, I would love his POV for several reasons:

-He spoke with Nale & Kalak. What did they speak of?

-We could get his opinion of his father.

-His reaction to knowing he is king would be nice.

-We could see him interact with Aesudan. 

-Seeing him before his time as king might be interesting, as he might be a rather different, and maybe more likeable person.

As for Eshonai, I dont know what she would contribute with, except for a Parshendi POV of the assassination. We already know her thoughts about it from her interludes.

Amaram is also nice, and rather likely.

 

[galendo]

17 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Jokes aside, that sounds pretty good actually. I would have similar plot, but have Kal's family accept him. I would focus less on Ialai and Adolin and more on Dalinar and Elhokar.

Thanks.  I forgot to include the part in part 5 where Kaladin's father is attacked and Kaladin kills the Voidbringer and sews up his father, thus justifying Kaladin's life choices, showing that he still makes good use of his father's teachings, and reconciling them once again.  It would be the capstone to his current arc, and I'm surprised I forgot it.  But thanks for reminding me!

@everyone else:
Guys, I think some of you are missing the point.  This thread isn't supposed to be about what you THINK will happen, but rather about what you WOULD MAKE happen, if you were in charge.  There's already a million threads speculating about what will actually happen in book 3.  This is your chance to cut loose.  Want to give wings to that Jasnah/Kaladin ship you've always favored?  Wishing Brandon would ditch Kaladin and promote Adolin to hero-in-chief?  Want to ditch everyone and write Jasnah and Wit's Wonderful Adventure?  All these things are technically possible.  It's not about what WILL happen, it's about what YOU'D HAVE happen.

Or keep speculating about what will happen, I guess, if you'd like.  I just thought something a bit different would be fun.

[maxal]

2 hours ago, galendo said:

Thanks.  I forgot to include the part in part 5 where Kaladin's father is attacked and Kaladin kills the Voidbringer and sews up his father, thus justifying Kaladin's life choices, showing that he still makes good use of his father's teachings, and reconciling them once again.  It would be the capstone to his current arc, and I'm surprised I forgot it.  But thanks for reminding me!

@everyone else:
Guys, I think some of you are missing the point.  This thread isn't supposed to be about what you THINK will happen, but rather about what you WOULD MAKE happen, if you were in charge.  There's already a million threads speculating about what will actually happen in book 3.  This is your chance to cut loose.  Want to give wings to that Jasnah/Kaladin ship you've always favored?  Wishing Brandon would ditch Kaladin and promote Adolin to hero-in-chief?  Want to ditch everyone and write Jasnah and Wit's Wonderful Adventure?  All these things are technically possible.  It's not about what WILL happen, it's about what YOU'D HAVE happen.

Or keep speculating about what will happen, I guess, if you'd like.  I just thought something a bit different would be fun.

I understood the purpose. I just wasn't sure others actually wanted to hear what I thought about it...

[Toaster Retribution]

6 hours ago, maxal said:

I understood the purpose. I just wasn't sure others actually wanted to hear what I thought about it...

Of course we do! It sounds interesting to know what everyone thinks should happen, so please, go for it if you feel like it.

If I could do what I wanted, Elhokar would have the prologue POV. Then Kaladin would be missing from one of the parts, and he would not save the day at the end.

I would also have Shallan become part of the Ghostbloods for real, since it could create interesting conflicts. 

Oh, and more Axies!

[maxal]

9 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

Of course we do! It sounds interesting to know what everyone thinks should happen, so please, go for it if you feel like it.

If I could do what I wanted, Elhokar would have the prologue POV. Then Kaladin would be missing from one of the parts, and he would not save the day at the end.

I would also have Shallan become part of the Ghostbloods for real, since it could create interesting conflicts. 

Oh, and more Axies!

I would have a hard time to state my thoughts into a cohesive story arc as Galendo did: I would thus need to work with my personal wishlist. I can't however ignore the fact this is Dalinar's book: I agree with the choice, so it isn't something I would personally change. 

I would thus wish for the followings:

1) The Prologue. It has been assumed, for the longest time, it would belong to Eshonai. I however agree with above commentaries we likely wouldn't learn many new elements as here reasons to have Gavilar killed were already exposed. Sure we may further dig into those, but it doesn't strike to me as more interesting than reading the POV of... Amaram. I genuinely want to know what happens in his head and his whereabouts on this one faithful night should be interesting. Another contender would be Elhokar. He isn't someone I ha initially thought of, but the idea is rapidly growing on me. It could make a nice addition to the Kholinar story arc to have Elhokar's POV within the prologue, giving us a much needed glimpse into his relationship with his wife and his desire to be king.

2) Book 1 (comprised of Part 1 and Part 2). It is obvious I wish for my most anticipated story arc to play out nicely and quickly enough. I WANT to hear Adolin's mental thoughts following the discovery of Sadeas's body, I want to read the snare closing on him and I want to explore the dark corners the ordeal will push him into. In juxtaposition, I also want to read Dalinar's thoughts on the matter and a third person's perspective on Adolin may be really interesting to read here. So while Part 1 would definitely present the POV of Dalinar, Shallan and Kaladin, I would also wish for one or two chapters from Adolin's POV. Part 2 would focus heavily on him and his downfall.

As for Kaladin, I'd have his story arc in Heartstone wrap up rather quick: he meets up with his parents and he gets closure with Roshone/Laral within Part 1. By the end of the part, he leaves to Kholinar: Heartstone is doing well and while Kaladin pleads the people should follow him, the people prefer to stay under the leadership of Laral whom had really step up in the last years. In Part 2, he'd have perhaps 1 or 2 chapters featuring him travelling to Kholinar, nothing extensive, just a few quick snapshots to show the reader what is happening to him. In the mean time, Part 2 would include an additional POV from someone located in Kholinar to give us perspective on the revolt. Maybe Aseduan or maybe one of the darkeyes leader.

Shallan gets more and more entangled with the Ghostblood, but since I quite frankly have no idea where she is going with them, I'd just say she has enough POV to keep it going. Her engagement with Adolin is broken down in Part 2.

The Honorblade is given to Elhokar.

Part 2 ends with a climaxes revolving around the unraveling of the truth surrounding Sadeas or a cliffhanger: it centers on both Adolin and Dalinar. In the end, Adolin is forced to give up his Shards (invent a scene where it happens in all plausibility, my favorite, Ialai calls onto the duel he had agreed to have with Sadeas. Adolin loses in tragic circumstances): the moment where he unbinds his Blade is very... emotional.

Adolin also finds out his father has forgotten his mother.

In the interlude, I'd show what Szeth and Jasnah are up too. Probably Rysn too.

3) Book 2 (comprised of Part 3). For Part 3, I'd have Kaladin getting involved into the rebellion. He is extremely torn in between who he is supposed to support: the lighteyes or the darkeyes. It doesn't turn out as expected when the darkeyes lose the control and terror ensue. Kaladin is force to recognize bad people come with all eye color and he strives to put order back into the town by forming a group of resistant harboring all eye color. One of his new men seem to have a windspren following him... Kaladin eventually ends up mentoring him.

Aseduan is killed and so ie her young son. Kaladin is disgusted a darkeye does it. For the first time in his life, he wishes he'd be able to kill a darkeye.

Shallan's family arrive to Urithiru and well, I don't quite know what happens here 

Renarin's POV is introduced here. We see his self-doubt over his new position as a Radiant, his feeling of uselessness as he feels his powers aren't quite equivalent to magnificent Kaladin .He still hasn't figure out how to use regrowth as he is very reluctant to work on his power, but more importantly, he worries for his brother. There are no Adolin's POV within this Part, but Renarin sees his brother going in and out of battle on the Shattered Plains (they are trying to remove all of the known Voidbringers) without his Shards. He doesn't like to see what the fighting seems to be doing with his brother. He keeps on thinking there is something he should be able to see, but he just can't see it.

Adolin drifts away from his family. Dalinar hardly notice in his anger, but Renarin is sad. He doesn't know what to do: he is the weak one. How can he ever be strong?

In the interludes, we see again Szeth doing stuff and Jasnah. Jasnah finally reaches Urithiru. We see the first glimpses of Eshonai having survived her fall. She meets up with the running away Parshendis.

4) Book 3 (comprised of Part 4 and 5). With Jasnah back, she and Shallan managed to re-open the Kholinar's oathgate. Words they had receive spoke of a massive upheaval. Kaladin and his band of multi eye-colored mercenaries are happy to get reinforced by Dalinar's own troops when the oathgate is re-opened. A lot of events happen through this story arc, but it basically ends up with Dalinar gaining back control over Kholinar with the help of Kaladin. Kaladin's forces end up becoming the new guarding forces of Kholinar: a group where eye color is not seen as a distinctive sign. Kaladin's "student" says his first oaths,

Elhokar hears about his wife and son having been killed. With the Honorblade, he goes into a frenzy and he kills several of the rebels. People suddenly are afraid of their king, but Dalinar, in his bias, is proud his nephew is finally seen as strong. Nobody but Renarin notices the gleam in the king's eyes. He shivers. He goes back to the city.

Adolin is not allowed to go to Kholinar: Dalinar demands he stays behind. Shallan stays behind as well. Father and son have drifted away quite some bit. In his father's absence, Adolin undertakes the colossal task of cleaning the Shattered Plains from all Voidbringers. He doesn't know the Everstorm is about to hit again, he doesn't know it has become stronger. He just wants something to do, something useful, something which may not make him want to puke each time he tries to fight. He talks a lot about his lost Blade, not being able to shake away the impulse to summon it, incapable to not try to speak to it. He misses her. Her. Somehow, it is a her.

In the mean time, Eshonai fights of the Stormform with the help of her mother and Thugg. She knows the Everstorm is about to hit again: this is all her fault. She wants to make it right: she summons all none-corrupted forces to sing to destroy it.

Adolin sees his mistake as he watches the Everstorm approaching. He sounds the retreat to get his men to the Oathgate, but he can't operate it. He screams in despair over not being able to do anything. Shallan was supposed to make them travel back, but not until a few more hours. He is surprised when the Oathgate opens... and he is more surprised when Renarin stands behind with a green gleaming Shardblade in his hand.

Renarin is relieved he finally managed to do something right, he is relieved he was not too late. The bulk of the army crosses back to Urithiru safely, but Adolin and Renarin go back to make sure they've got everyone. There are still soldiers left. Cursing himself for not having gotten a proper retreat, Adolin goes to usher them onto the Plateau. Through the thick curtain of rain, he hears signing. 

Venli appears. Adolin runs to her to offer a distraction while his men safely cross back to the city. The Everstorm hits. Renarin fails to go back in time for his brother: he can't open the Oathgate through an Everstorm.

Venli easily defeats Shardless Adolin, but before she has the time for the killing blow, Eshonai and her force of good signing Parshendis are on her. Adolin is left for dead in a puddle. Eshonai defeats Venli with or without Radiant powers. The Everstorm is stopped, the sun comes back. She recognize fallen Adolin as the Blackthorn's son, the one who threw her down in the chasm. She murmurs and silent "thank you" and is surprised to find out he is still breathing. The Parshendi takes him with them as they leave.

The Shattered Plain scene plays in parallel with the Kholinar revolt one. Two battles, two outcomes.

In Part 5, Renarin announces to his father Adolin has been killed in battle. Dalinar suddenly feels the need to sit down. Shallan is genuinely hurting and puzzled as to why. Kaladin shakes his head and bit his lips for not having been there: his men tell him he can't be everywhere all at once. Kaladin's student ask if they found a body: Renarin says he must have dropped into a chasm.

When Adolin wakes up, he is surrounded by Parshendis who can't speak Alethi except for one, Eshonai. Hurt, all he can babble about is his Blade, how he needs to find her and how everything is just plain wrong.... 

Jasnah finds out about Shallan's double identity. 

Elhokar sits on his throne with his Honorblade, proud to finally be feared. Renarin shivers once more: he isn't sure what he is seeing, but it doesn't seem good.

Szeth does stuff in Shinovar which will eventually become relevant.

Epilogue: Adolin is recovering and becomes more coherent. The children Parshendi really take on to him. He promises to help Eshonai and her people, if she helps him find his Blade again. It is an odd deal, but Eshonai accepts as what hope is there for her people but the nephew of the men she once killed?

These would be the large lines. Of course, a lot is missing out, so invent a few other story arcs being intervene with those.

[Toaster Retribution]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

I would have a hard time to state my thoughts into a cohesive story arc as Galendo did: I would thus need to work with my personal wishlist. I can't however ignore the fact this is Dalinar's book: I agree with the choice, so it isn't something I would personally change. 

I would thus wish for the followings:

1) The Prologue. It has been assumed, for the longest time, it would belong to Eshonai. I however agree with above commentaries we likely wouldn't learn many new elements as here reasons to have Gavilar killed were already exposed. Sure we may further dig into those, but it doesn't strike to me as more interesting than reading the POV of... Amaram. I genuinely want to know what happens in his head and his whereabouts on this one faithful night should be interesting. Another contender would be Elhokar. He isn't someone I ha initially thought of, but the idea is rapidly growing on me. It could make a nice addition to the Kholinar story arc to have Elhokar's POV within the prologue, giving us a much needed glimpse into his relationship with his wife and his desire to be king.

2) Book 1 (comprised of Part 1 and Part 2). It is obvious I wish for my most anticipated story arc to play out nicely and quickly enough. I WANT to hear Adolin's mental thoughts following the discovery of Sadeas's body, I want to read the snare closing on him and I want to explore the dark corners the ordeal will push him into. In juxtaposition, I also want to read Dalinar's thoughts on the matter and a third person's perspective on Adolin may be really interesting to read here. So while Part 1 would definitely present the POV of Dalinar, Shallan and Kaladin, I would also wish for one or two chapters from Adolin's POV. Part 2 would focus heavily on him and his downfall.

As for Kaladin, I'd have his story arc in Heartstone wrap up rather quick: he meets up with his parents and he gets closure with Roshone/Laral within Part 1. By the end of the part, he leaves to Kholinar: Heartstone is doing well and while Kaladin pleads the people should follow him, the people prefer to stay under the leadership of Laral whom had really step up in the last years. In Part 2, he'd have perhaps 1 or 2 chapters featuring him travelling to Kholinar, nothing extensive, just a few quick snapshots to show the reader what is happening to him. In the mean time, Part 2 would include an additional POV from someone located in Kholinar to give us perspective on the revolt. Maybe Aseduan or maybe one of the darkeyes leader.

Shallan gets more and more entangled with the Ghostblood, but since I quite frankly have no idea where she is going with them, I'd just say she has enough POV to keep it going. Her engagement with Adolin is broken down in Part 2.

The Honorblade is given to Elhokar.

Part 2 ends with a climaxes revolving around the unraveling of the truth surrounding Sadeas or a cliffhanger: it centers on both Adolin and Dalinar. In the end, Adolin is forced to give up his Shards (invent a scene where it happens in all plausibility, my favorite, Ialai calls onto the duel he had agreed to have with Sadeas. Adolin loses in tragic circumstances): the moment where he unbinds his Blade is very... emotional.

Adolin also finds out his father has forgotten his mother.

In the interlude, I'd show what Szeth and Jasnah are up too. Probably Rysn too.

3) Book 2 (comprised of Part 3). For Part 3, I'd have Kaladin getting involved into the rebellion. He is extremely torn in between who he is supposed to support: the lighteyes or the darkeyes. It doesn't turn out as expected when the darkeyes lose the control and terror ensue. Kaladin is force to recognize bad people come with all eye color and he strives to put order back into the town by forming a group of resistant harboring all eye color. One of his new men seem to have a windspren following him... Kaladin eventually ends up mentoring him.

Aseduan is killed and so ie her young son. Kaladin is disgusted a darkeye does it. For the first time in his life, he wishes he'd be able to kill a darkeye.

Shallan's family arrive to Urithiru and well, I don't quite know what happens here 

Renarin's POV is introduced here. We see his self-doubt over his new position as a Radiant, his feeling of uselessness as he feels his powers aren't quite equivalent to magnificent Kaladin .He still hasn't figure out how to use regrowth as he is very reluctant to work on his power, but more importantly, he worries for his brother. There are no Adolin's POV within this Part, but Renarin sees his brother going in and out of battle on the Shattered Plains (they are trying to remove all of the known Voidbringers) without his Shards. He doesn't like to see what the fighting seems to be doing with his brother. He keeps on thinking there is something he should be able to see, but he just can't see it.

Adolin drifts away from his family. Dalinar hardly notice in his anger, but Renarin is sad. He doesn't know what to do: he is the weak one. How can he ever be strong?

In the interludes, we see again Szeth doing stuff and Jasnah. Jasnah finally reaches Urithiru. We see the first glimpses of Eshonai having survived her fall. She meets up with the running away Parshendis.

4) Book 3 (comprised of Part 4 and 5). With Jasnah back, she and Shallan managed to re-open the Kholinar's oathgate. Words they had receive spoke of a massive upheaval. Kaladin and his band of multi eye-colored mercenaries are happy to get reinforced by Dalinar's own troops when the oathgate is re-opened. A lot of events happen through this story arc, but it basically ends up with Dalinar gaining back control over Kholinar with the help of Kaladin. Kaladin's forces end up becoming the new guarding forces of Kholinar: a group where eye color is not seen as a distinctive sign. Kaladin's "student" says his first oaths,

Elhokar hears about his wife and son having been killed. With the Honorblade, he goes into a frenzy and he kills several of the rebels. People suddenly are afraid of their king, but Dalinar, in his bias, is proud his nephew is finally seen as strong. Nobody but Renarin notices the gleam in the king's eyes. He shivers. He goes back to the city.

Adolin is not allowed to go to Kholinar: Dalinar demands he stays behind. Shallan stays behind as well. Father and son have drifted away quite some bit. In his father's absence, Adolin undertakes the colossal task of cleaning the Shattered Plains from all Voidbringers. He doesn't know the Everstorm is about to hit again, he doesn't know it has become stronger. He just wants something to do, something useful, something which may not make him want to puke each time he tries to fight. He talks a lot about his lost Blade, not being able to shake away the impulse to summon it, incapable to not try to speak to it. He misses her. Her. Somehow, it is a her.

In the mean time, Eshonai fights of the Stormform with the help of her mother and Thugg. She knows the Everstorm is about to hit again: this is all her fault. She wants to make it right: she summons all none-corrupted forces to sing to destroy it.

Adolin sees his mistake as he watches the Everstorm approaching. He sounds the retreat to get his men to the Oathgate, but he can't operate it. He screams in despair over not being able to do anything. Shallan was supposed to make them travel back, but not until a few more hours. He is surprised when the Oathgate opens... and he is more surprised when Renarin stands behind with a green gleaming Shardblade in his hand.

Renarin is relieved he finally managed to do something right, he is relieved he was not too late. The bulk of the army crosses back to Urithiru safely, but Adolin and Renarin go back to make sure they've got everyone. There are still soldiers left. Cursing himself for not having gotten a proper retreat, Adolin goes to usher them onto the Plateau. Through the thick curtain of rain, he hears signing. 

Venli appears. Adolin runs to her to offer a distraction while his men safely cross back to the city. The Everstorm hits. Renarin fails to go back in time for his brother: he can't open the Oathgate through an Everstorm.

Venli easily defeats Shardless Adolin, but before she has the time for the killing blow, Eshonai and her force of good signing Parshendis are on her. Adolin is left for dead in a puddle. Eshonai defeats Venli with or without Radiant powers. The Everstorm is stopped, the sun comes back. She recognize fallen Adolin as the Blackthorn's son, the one who threw her down in the chasm. She murmurs and silent "thank you" and is surprised to find out he is still breathing. The Parshendi takes him with them as they leave.

The Shattered Plain scene plays in parallel with the Kholinar revolt one. Two battles, two outcomes.

In Part 5, Renarin announces to his father Adolin has been killed in battle. Dalinar suddenly feels the need to sit down. Shallan is genuinely hurting and puzzled as to why. Kaladin shakes his head and bit his lips for not having been there: his men tell him he can't be everywhere all at once. Kaladin's student ask if they found a body: Renarin says he must have dropped into a chasm.

When Adolin wakes up, he is surrounded by Parshendis who can't speak Alethi except for one, Eshonai. Hurt, all he can babble about is his Blade, how he needs to find her and how everything is just plain wrong.... 

Jasnah finds out about Shallan's double identity. 

Elhokar sits on his throne with his Honorblade, proud to finally be feared. Renarin shivers once more: he isn't sure what he is seeing, but it doesn't seem good.

Szeth does stuff in Shinovar which will eventually become relevant.

Epilogue: Adolin is recovering and becomes more coherent. The children Parshendi really take on to him. He promises to help Eshonai and her people, if she helps him find his Blade again. It is an odd deal, but Eshonai accepts as what hope is there for her people but the nephew of the men she once killed?

These would be the large lines. Of course, a lot is missing out, so invent a few other story arcs being intervene with those.

The Adolin/Renarin stuff is awesome, as is Elhokar!

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Chull #445 said:

The Adolin/Renarin stuff is awesome, as is Elhokar!

Yeah I wanted to give a bigger role to Renarin as I felt he was underused. The idea was to have him figure out how to trust his visions and to find a way to help his brother. I love brother/brother relationships and I wanted more time spend on this one. Adolin is one impulsive fellow, so I got him into trouble as he feels he has grown useless and redundant.

Having the book end with the Kholins thinking Adolin dead opens the door for Renarin dealing with the guilt of having felt to get to his brother before he was swapped away by the Everstorm. However, instead of making Renarin crumbled under the guilt like Dalinar and Kaladin, I'd have him buckle up and work his way to compensate. Without his brother, he'd try to do exactly what Adolin would have done: work hard to be the most useful Radiant ever. This would be his book 4 arc. 

I'd also wanted to bring Eshonai within the main narrative and I figured she had unfinished business with Adolin. If she caused a war by having Gavilar killed, she may redeem them by having saved Adolin. I thought grouping both characters would be interesting. Book 4 would feature an "Adolin is exile" kinda of story arc (without removing him from the means to actually come back) where he slowly makes his way back to his family as he cannot open the Oathgate. His new found alliance with Eshonai and the Parshendi would end up being important and Eshonai would stay true to her word in helping Adolin finding the man who bounded his Blade. The only problem is it may be to reminiscence of Jasnah dying and then not dying. I hadn't thought of that... The Blade revival story arc would take place within book 4, but by the end of book 3, we would have definite clues it is happening. All sort of very strong obvious clues.

Adolin's wrist never heal quite right. He can fight, but he keeps it wrap at all time and it aches when it rains. I am toying with the idea of having the Parshendi but a crab like armor on his wrist to solidify it, but I dunno if it is possible. Adolin retains a handicap though. 

In book 4, Adolin and his Parshendi guards, travel back to the Shattered Plains. He finds mother's chain in the mud. He says the second oath to the Edgedancer. I still have to figured out when he says the first one... 

For Kaladin, well, I didn't want him saving the day, so instead I gave him a leadership role where he organizes the forces of order within Kholinar, having him create his own unit of mixed eyes individuals. I also gave him a student to mentor. He has a decisive role to play within the climaxes at Kholinar, but Dalinar actually saves the day. They would also be climaxes for him in Part 1, in Heartstone.

I have no idea what to do with Shallan but she is around doing stuff with the Ghostblood... 

I love evil Elhokar  My idea is he gets corrupted by the Honorblade. Renarin is the only one who sees it, but can he do something about it? That's for book 4, for when the brothers are reunited.

Overall this is just an idea... not the only one I have gotten, but I wanted to show how Adolin could be used as a relevant character within the story. 

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by maxal

[galendo]

@maxal

Wow, I loved the summary!  I think you have a lot of great ideas.  I especially like the idea of Adolin (and/or Renarin; it would work either way) finding out that Dalinar has forgotten his mother.  Giving Renarin an expanded role also seems good; I admit I struggled to find a role for him to play in my summary.  He seems kind of redundant.

I'm curious that you have Adolin and Shallan's relationship break down, though.  What's the motivation for this?  Do you not like the characters together, or...I'm not quite sure what your plan is here.

[maxal]

Just now, galendo said:

@maxal

Wow, I loved the summary!  I think you have a lot of great ideas.  I especially like the idea of Adolin (and/or Renarin; it would work either way) finding out that Dalinar has forgotten his mother.  Giving Renarin an expanded role also seems good; I admit I struggled to find a role for him to play in my summary.  He seems kind of redundant.

I'm curious that you have Adolin and Shallan's relationship break down, though.  What's the motivation for this?  Do you not like the characters together, or...I'm not quite sure what your plan is here.

When it comes to Renarin, I tried to think of story arcs which would make him more sympathetic towards myself as a reader. I try to think as what I find is missing: agency, capacity to accomplish something and responsibility. I thus tried to think of story arcs which would make him develop those. At the end of WoR, he comes across as a very reluctant Radiant having terrible visions... What can he do? I suspect struggle some more with them, up until he realizes nothing is ever final and he has the strength to influence events. In the story I suggested, it isn't well explained, but Renarin goes back for Adolin because he knows his brother's army has been trapped onto the Plains. He knows they can't get back without a Radiant and Shallan is somehow not available to help. He never operated the Oathgate before, he never held Glys as a Blade, but having his brother on the other side is a strong enough motivator for him to forget he is scared, to forget the horrors he has seen and to take a plunge. To try at being a Radiant and he does succeed... He saves the army, but Adolin dooms himself.

I do think losing Adolin would help Renarin's character, but I hate all story arcs having Adolin either go evil or exiled. I dislike the evil arc for obvious reason as for the exile, I find it too definitive. Was is to happen to him afterwards? Can he ever come back? Instead, I had Adolin get stranded on the Shattered Plains. He is left behind because he tried to save his men by offering a shield in between their retreat and the approaching enemy. He doesn't make it in time to the Oathgate due to Venli beating the crap out of him. Renarin can't get to his brother because the Everstorm hits, thus Adolin is left for dead, especially since they can't find his body when they manage to come back for him. Thus Adolin is essentially thought lost to everyone which propels both Dalinar and Renarin's character development (as the perfect foil he is), but it also helps his as, alone within strange people who sing songs instead of talking, he kinda ends up having the break he needed. It is not exactly like Jasnah because we, the readers, are perfectly aware Adolin lives. 

I also want the boys to find out about Dalinar forgetting their mother and I think it would be more relevant to Adolin than Renarin. I suspect Renarin may have guessed a while ago as he knew about the Old Magic. Also, Adolin is the one who seems to have the most lasting memories of their mother, he seems to be the one who is the most attached to those, with his little rituals, it seems logical to have him hold this against his father. I also wanted him to find out his father forgot everything in order to have him swear he would never forget once he finds his chain again. A bit cheezy, but with a good writer, I think it's work.

Why do Shallan and Adolin break up? I left that purposefully vague... I figured there would be so many reasons for the union to fail and the idea was to completely isolate Adolin from everyone in order to make his "final moments" more significant. I am not really sure what Shallan could be up to, so it may be the weakest part of my speculation. I would need to figure out what she is doing exactly within the story in order to figured this one out. I do love Shallan and Adolin together, but I do not think Shallan appreciates nor loves Adolin. I thus naively thought of using the oldest trick in the room and to have Adolin be gone for Shallan to realize she misses him. Also, she isn't there to open the Oathgate because she was "busy" with her "other work", so there is some guilt going on there. They eventually get back together, but not in book 3.

I would still need to work on this one... 

 

[Djarskublar]

I like this one too. I particularly like how Adolin ends up with the parshendi. I like Shallan x Adolin as well, but Adolin x Eshonai would be hilarously awesome too! We even know that 'works' because horneaters are a mix of human and parshendi. I'm not WW, I don't have a Renarin complex, so I don't think I would use him as much. I like him as is. Still, he should get some POV.

It would be hilarious to see Eshonai go to mateform later because of him. She hates it so much.

[maxal]

4 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

I like this one too. I particularly like how Adolin ends up with the parshendi. I like Shallan x Adolin as well, but Adolin x Eshonai would be hilarously awesome too! We even know that 'works' because horneaters are a mix of human and parshendi. I'm not WW, I don't have a Renarin complex, so I don't think I would use him as much. I like him as is. Still, he should get some POV.

It would be hilarious to see Eshonai go to mateform later because of him. She hates it so much.

Book 4 is scheduled to be Eshonai's book and since she is a character I have not managed to engage myself with, I tried to thought of ways to make her story more interesting. I also was not fond of the Parshendis POV within WoR, so I figured adding a third person's perspective into their group would do wonders. Adolin is de facto our third person's perspective onto characters lacking dynamism: dropping him into a group of rogue Parshendis seems like a good idea. Of all characters, he strikes me as the one who'd do the best among them... The rogue Parshendis are mostly formed of elderly and children, so they would take onto young Adolin rather quickly, with him becoming a mascot of sort, an injured little dog they need to take care of much to his utmost annoyance.

Drop any other character and it is just not as fun. Put Kaladin in there and it gets rapidly boring: he'd organize them into a fighting unit, have them train. He'd take over and have them work their way towards independence in a foreign settings... he wouldn't bother with their culture, but put Adolin in there and you have a bunch of elderly Parshendi thinking he is too impulsive and emotive and he needs songs of soothing. Adolin is also used to have an authoritative father, so when the elders sit him down to explain him about themselves, he'd actually listen, even better, he'd be fascinated because he is more easily impressionable. Adolin would also not focus onto doing anything with his rescuers, all he'd think about is going back home to his family and find his Blade again. He'd thus want the Parhendis to find another home which would prompt him to use his position as Prince of Alethkar to secure one for them. As he recovers, he'd also end up learning a lot about their fighting style: I always wanted him to learn how to fight without the 10 stances.

Put Dalinar in there and yawn... BORING.

Of all characters, Adolin is the one capable of learning the most out of the experience and he likely is the one the Parshendis would "adopt" more easily.

Also, Eshonai would have on reason to save any other character. She knows who Adolin is. Of course the plot requires her to know his physical appearance without his Plate but since she spent time in Kholinar, several years back, I figured she'd be able to recognize him. Her relationship with him wouldn't be romantic either, more like a big sister which would be hilarious since Adolin is used to be the big brother, not to be push around by any older sibling, though he'd be the one to notice how Thugg looks at Eshonai...

It makes sense for Eshonai to save Adolin.

Within this narrative, Renarin works well. It gives him a few interesting things to do and it allows him room to grow. He is the one to notice something is wrong with Elhokar, but he does not voice out his thoughts. Adolin would have noticed as well and Adolin may have spoken up, but Adolin is gone, so it is up to him to figure it out. I could probably give him a bunch of other things to do as well, like spying on Shallan and uncovering her activities...

 

[galendo]

I like the idea of splitting all the Kholin men up.  Renarin feels like a pale copy of Adolin, who feels in turn like a younger copy of Dalinar.  Some time apart might give them all a chance to grow into their own characters.

Part of the reason I didn't like the Dalinar/Adolin sections of WoK that much was that I felt that I was getting unnecessary viewpoints of the same basic events.  Seeing everything twice, after a fashion.  (It also didn't help that those sections were a lot less exciting than the Kaladin and Shallan ones, either.  I just can't really bring myself to care whether the king's saddle was sabotaged or not.)  Splitting up those three, and Elhokar too, while we're at it, seems like it might do wonders for all their characters.

[maxal]

1 hour ago, galendo said:

I like the idea of splitting all the Kholin men up.  Renarin feels like a pale copy of Adolin, who feels in turn like a younger copy of Dalinar.  Some time apart might give them all a chance to grow into their own characters.

Part of the reason I didn't like the Dalinar/Adolin sections of WoK that much was that I felt that I was getting unnecessary viewpoints of the same basic events.  Seeing everything twice, after a fashion.  (It also didn't help that those sections were a lot less exciting than the Kaladin and Shallan ones, either.  I just can't really bring myself to care whether the king's saddle was sabotaged or not.)  Splitting up those three, and Elhokar too, while we're at it, seems like it might do wonders for all their characters.

Yeah I did figure giving each character the room they need to grow would benefit the entire story. As it stands, I sometimes feel as if Adolin can't grow as long as he remains Dalinar's foil not to mention the character doesn't quite know who he is and what he wants. Being trust into unexpected circumstances, far away from Dalinar's expectations and prying eye, among a group of very different people, Adolin could finally learn what kind of a man he wants to be. He may finally realize what he stands for, what truly matters to him. It is a bit cruel to trust him onto a journey in such a fashion, but I feel it is one of the best path for him. Also, Adolin and the Parshendis would make some very nice scenes which simply do not work out with the other characters.

Back in WoK, I'll admit I preferred Adolin (oh surprise) voice over Dalinar. I felt Dalinar was moralizing, patronizing and downright stubborn in refusing to listen to his son. Adolin felt like a breath of fresh air in between Kaladin's torture scenes and Dalinar's visions. I didn't care about the saddle girth either, but I did care about the multiple courtships and Adolin's endless ranting against his uniform. Loved it, but this was WoK. Going into book 3, Adolin has grown too much to keep on being Dalinar's external voice.

Renarin probably needs time away as well, but not from his father, from his brother. He needs to walk out of his shadow and he needs to have Dalinar start treating him as a grown-up as opposed to a little child needing constant protection. Without Adolin as his right-hand man, Dalinar would be forced to use Renarin. With Adolin dead, Dalinar would be forced to start shaping Renarin into a future Highprince, not to forget we'd see him go through grief of having lost his first born. I always thought Dalinar's next oath would be something he'd learn through Adolin, something to do with him being guiding. It is said he needs to unite and not divide, but I also think he needs to be guiding and forgiving, not judging and intransigent if he is to unite anyone. This could be what he'll be force to ponder on once Adolin is lost.

In the planning I suggested, Elhokar doesn't have many POV as I felt he isn't a character which should get many. I really liked the idea of him having the prologue which is why I reused it. I think I'd also give him an epilogue or one POV chapter within Part 5 where we some of what is going on with him. 

I love the Kholins. I think they are underused which reflects within my planning. Splitting them has been one of my idea from the start, but I was never keen onto the "Adolin is exiled" potential arcs. 

My weak points would be what to do with Shallan which would be interesting (I am so lost here) and how to conclude both her arc and Kaladin into something both satisfying and opened onto the next book, to give us something to yearn for. I like putting Kaladin into a position where he now leads a battalion of multi eye colored soldiers which he formed himself, but it isn't an ending... He needs to be doing something more.

Oh here is an idea... What if I end it with Kaladin actually kissing Shallan? She is sad because Adolin is dead. She is free. Kaladin senses her grieve and... he kisses her. What does the kiss mean? What will she make of it? So cheesy... but it could work.