Theory: Connection, Investiture, Identity, and What is A Shardworld Anyway

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

 

Okay, this is going to get long, so bear with me. But essentially, this is my theory on what's fundamentally going on with the expression of magic on each Shardworld, and what I'm calling my Rule of Three.

Three is the number of Realms in the cosmere obviously, Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual. It seems to me that all magic requires elements working in tandem across all three Realms simultaneously to achieve a specific effect. What those elements are depends on the Shardworld more than Shards, but always results in the same breakdown.

In essence, in the cosmere, magic is ultimately:

People using Investiture to alter the world around them, or themselves in relation to the world.

Three elements. The person using the magic. The Investiture fueling the magic. And the world they're effecting change on.

But a lot of magic is internal in the cosmere. It only affects the magic-user like with various forms of Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Well, yes. But that gets into the nature of what exactly IS a Shardworld?

Because we've done a lot of theorizing over the years over the nature of foci and what Brandon's said about magic being the result of how Shardworlds interact Shards' Investiture. But the element I feel we've been leaving out of that theorizing is just what constitutes a Shardworld in the first place? Everything in the cosmere has an Identity. From rocks to chairs to forces of nature. But what comprises a planet's Identity? Is it just the giant rock in space itself? Or is it the amalgamation of everything on it, the rocks, the trees, the animals, and the sentient beings? 

My theory is that it's the latter. In which case, there's a distinction to be made in the WoB about the nature of magic on each Shardworld. In this case, magic on each Shardworld is born of how Shards' Investiture interacts with the Shardworld (AND the people who consider it their planet).

Moreover, while I believe Shardworlds recognize the difference between Shards when manifesting their power in physical ways...I believe they see Shards at their core as being all fundamentally the same. They are all pieces of the same original after all, and while Intents fuel differentiation between each of them, the power behind each Intent all comes from the same place. I believe this to be why any Shard could potentially Invest in any Shardworld another Shard has already Invested....but unless they find a way to Invest MORE than the previous Shards, the way their Investiture manifests will always follow the precedent set by the previous Shards, as though their power is being channeled through a framework someone else already built.

This is why we have this Word of Brandon:

 

Quote

 

SHADOWSABER223 ()

If Odium were lured to Scadrial, would his physical body turn into a burnable metal? If so, could Harmony create an Odium-metal legion of Mistings to consume and burn it? Would that weaken him sufficiently enough to be killed or destroyed?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The difficulty here is, again, one of Identity. People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic. Odium would have to do certain things to make them able to use a magic he fuels. He has done these things on Roshar, so it's not impossible for him to manage it on Scadrial.

 

 

 

Which establishes two things. One, that there is a three-way bond between people, their Shardworld, and its magic. Two, the phrasing suggests that Odium did certain things (ie Investiture) on Roshar which enabled people already on Roshar to use magic he fueled. In other words, I do not believe he Invested at the same time as Honor and Cultivation, and as such, his later Investiture flowed through the framework they had already established and manifested in a similar form. But more on that in a bit.

SCADRIAL

First let's focus on Scadrial. It's unique among the Shardworlds we know thus far in that it and its inhabitants were created by Ruin and Preservation. We also know that there's a genetic component to Investiture on Scadrial, which makes it harder to hack in terms of using its Investiture to fuel other magic systems. Finally, I know there's a Word of Brandon on this but maybe someone can help me track it down....its not the metals themselves that are the focus for magic on Scadrial, but rather the molecular patterns within the metal.

So if my theory is correct, Ruin and Preservation Invested in Scadrial on a staggering scale. Their power is literally part of the fabric of its creation, and its peoples' creation, because they created both. The Shardworld regards them as its Creators, because they are. It would not exist without these Shards' power. And they are mixed into the fundamental building blocks of both planet and people, in the very elements of the earth and the DNA of the inhabitants. And I believe the two are a matched set, at least when it comes to Investiture. I think the pattern in steel that unlocks the Investiture wielded by a steel misting or ferring matches the pattern in the DNA of those mistings/ferrings. And the DNA of full Mistborn and Feruchemists is like a master pattern that encompasses all the smaller ones of each, allowing an individual to unlock them all.

We know too that Shards don't have total control over shaping their magic systems. That they mostly arise on their own, a natural set of conditions made from the interactions between Investiture and Shardworld. However, given that Ruin and Preservation created this world and people from scratch, I believe they had more of a hand in shaping its magic than most Shards. And thus Preservation's magic has a built in backdoor that allows it to be spread and used by anyone with the right tools (ie Lerasium) in preserving life (the Connection demanded to initially access his Investiture), while Ruin's magic is literally the easiest one in the cosmere to be used by anyone and spread beyond just Scadrial and its inhabitants in pursuit of sowing entropy.

But because these Shards are so fundamental to the fabric of Scadrial and its peoples, its Investiture in their very bedrock....by extension that means that any Shards to come to Scadrial after them would be limited to working within the framework they established with their Investiture. They literally created the world. There's really no way to Invest any more than that, which means I think its unlikely that any future Shards Investing in the planet will result in the rise of a whole new magic system. However, new Shard Investiture in the planet, following the precedent Ruin and Preservation mapped out, will manifest in the very fabric of the planet and people itself....because that is how the Shardworld interacts with Shards' power. But only if the Shards in question are willing to Invest to such an extensive degree. Scadrial, in my estimation, demands a costly Investiture....but it would result in a new godmetal forming in the earth (ie Trellium) and a matching pattern for that godmetal in its inhabitants' DNA. Because while it may be a costly Investment, Scadrial and its people are one and the same....once a Shard Invests in them, they are a part of both at a core, fundamental level. Scadrial's magic, while versatile, is simple and very physical oriented....because so much of its Shards' Investiture is focused in the physical realm.

ROSHAR

Next let's move on to Roshar. It's unique in that we have knowledge it existed pre-Shattering, and included spren that were splinters of Adonalsium's power itself. We also have suspicions that the humans on Roshar weren't native to it, which could affect the Identity of the Shardworld and their interaction with Investiture on it. However, Roshar confused the crap out of me because it showed two separate manifestations of Investiture - spren and Stormlight. Which I couldn't wrap my head around.

Unless...what if they're one and the same? 

The nature of Roshar is such that the boundaries between the three Realms are considerably less firm than somewhere like Scadrial. Humans and spren can move between Physical and Cognitive Realm without too much hindrance, suggesting a much closer relationship between thought and physicality on this Shardworld, and Brandon has described gemstones soaking up stormlight during a Highstorm as being akin to screwing a lightbulb directly into the Spiritual Realm, suggesting that unlike Scadrial, where Investiture primarily manifests in the Physical Realm, Investiture on Roshar is mostly focused in the Spiritual...at least when in the form of stormlight. We also have a WoB that enough Investiture, if not picked up over a long enough period of time...will eventually develop some kind of sentience.

So what if Investiture on Roshar just manifests as Stormlight, a raw, primal force of nature that's part of the planet's very ecosystem, a wild reservoir of Investiture that's scattered across the globe on a regular basis. In essence, a Spiritual primordial soup.....which over time spawns life forms aka spren just like our own primordial soup birthed the first organisms on Earth. Since we know Adonalsium had splinters of its power in the form of spren even pre-Shattering, per my theory, Adonalsium itself provided the initial framework for the form Investiture would take when interacting with Roshar. Perhaps the more mindless spren we've seen are birthed of its power as it was spread far beyond just Roshar and so was diluted enough that the spren born of its interaction with Roshar are sentient in the sense that they're pieces of nature with more sense of Identity than your average rock or flame....whereas when Honor and Cultivation arrived, their Investiture was more concentrated, and thus spren that birthed themselves from their contribution to the Stormlight primordial soup rose to the level of full sapience.

So, Adonalsium dug out the initial channel in Roshar for Shard Investiture to flow through, and so Honor and Cultivation's Investiture followed the path it laid. But they provided the framework for its magic, as there was none already in place. And thus Surgebinding is the result of forming bonds with pieces of their Investiture and cultivating those bonds. Because of this I believe bonds are the foci on Roshar....which applies not just to spiritual or moral bonds between humans and spren, but also to the bonds in crystal lattices, ie gemstones and gemhearts, which are both naturally occurring in nature and grown or cultivated in living beings. (Just as the patterns on Scadrial occur both in metals and human DNA if I'm right).

I'm still waiting til we find one way or another if Roshar's humans came from elsewhere. If so, that could be why Surgebinders can only form bonds with spren who are definitively of either Honor or Cultivation...as transplants to Roshar, perhaps their Identity and Connection to both Shardworld and Investiture limits them to only forming bonds with the Investiture that arrived with them...such as if Honor and Cultivation came with them to Roshar from somewhere else. 

Either way, when Odium later arrived on Roshar and Invested himself, following this theory, his Investiture manifested in the vast Stormlight reservoir and eventually achieved varying levels of sentience in the form of his odiumspren. But because Honor and Cultivation by now had laid a framework for magic on this world via their own interactions with Roshar by this point, Odium's voidbinding followed the same course - but rather than build on honorable bonds and the cultivation of them, his Investiture fueled the bonds of hatred, which enslaves even as much as it empowers. So in theory, any other Shards that Invested in Roshar would eventually birth endowmentspren, autonomyspren, etc, and they would fuel a kind of Surgebinding via bonds with these spren, though its impossible to speculate how the resulting magic would look compared to Surgebinding when we're still not entirely sure how differently Voidbinding manifests in terms of specific powers. 

NALTHIS

Nalthis is like Roshar in that Investiture on it seems to manifest primarily in the Spiritual Realm. Specifically, Endowment's Investiture manifests as Breath, an innate part of the spiritweb of people born Identifying as being of Nalthis. As a Shardworld is its people and vice versa, this is the form Investiture interacting with Nalthis takes, as established by Endowment's initial interaction with it. However, unlike Roshar, Nalthis manifests no sentient splinters in the form of spren because its Investiture, while Spiritually focused....is never left untouched. It's always paired with a sentient mind, being held by humans until its used to Awaken. And being a fundamental part of the economy, Breath is in such demand that its rare and extremely unlikely that a sufficient quantity of it could ever be stored in an object long enough without being discovered for it to develop sentience on its own accord. Even the great treasure trove of Breaths had to be passed down from father to son for dozens of generations to keep it from being stolen.

The focus on Nalthis, we're told, is Cognitive, the Commands given when Awakening, which actually fits with the Intent of Endowment and makes sense as an intentional or unintentional shaping of her magic system. Because Endowments don't typically come with no strings attached. An endowment is given with a specific purpose in mind. When you give a college or charity organization an endowment, you have specific directives for how it's to be used. So a Command as the focus of a magic system fueled by Endowment fits perfectly.....you give or bequeath Breath to an object you Awaken....but you do so with specific directives for how that Breath is to be used.

What that means though, is that if any other Shards were to come to Nalthis and Invest themselves, their Investiture would manifest in the form established by the Shardworld's first interaction with a Shard. I think any other Shard's Investiture on Nalthis would also manifest as an innate part of their Spiritweb...whether Breath was the best name for this new addition to their Spiritweb is debatable, but in each case it would be something that in keeping with Endowment's precedent could be moved from person to person. Just as Voidbinders form bonds with odiumspren and allomancers burn atium, Nalthians could pass this not-Breath from one to another....though likely the effects of using it would be different than Awakening. If I'm on the right track, Nalthis is actually the planet I would most like to see another Shard Invest itself in, because I think that's most likely to result in the rise of a magic system most dissimilar to the planet's original magic system, out of all the Shardworlds we've seen so far. For instance, Odium Investing in Nalthis would result in its people being born from that point on with a second Breath, that while still requiring Commands to focus or direct its usage when imbuing something with it, would not Awaken that object but would rather interpret Commands in some other fashion. I have a few ideas for how this might look, but that's pure speculation.

SEL

Finally we have Sel (I've read the White Sand prose version but not the graphic novel yet, so abstaining from including my thoughts on that so far). Sel also established its interactions with Shards via a paired set, Devotion and Dominion, and as they were both Splintered some time ago, we have no idea what the magic looked like before that happened and no doubt altered things considerably. However, what we do know is that magic is region-locked, and that the foci seems to be shapes.

However, I'd posit that the focus isn't shapes so much as its shapes with meaning. Ie, symbols. The Aons are a language, each one has a specific meaning to all Elantrians. The shape of Mai-Pon is a symbol of Forgers' homeland. The shapes formed by a ChayShan practitioner's body are made with intent. The shape of the bone twists mean something to the Dakhor monks. The combination of symbols plus regional focus makes me think that the intersection of Devotion and Dominion ie nationalistic identity is the key to tapping the Connection to Sel's Investiture most effectively. The mere existence of Elantris is a rather brilliant way of hacking such a magic system and maximizing its usage by a group who are in theory idealized as being altruistic. Craft an external Identity that means what you want it to....Elantrian....give it a focus point and regional representation....Elantris, the city....and then fill it with people who match that Identity and thus perpetuate and build it til it takes a life of its own....the Shaod. This is only speculation at this point, but I believe that the reason Shadesmar is where the Splintered Shards of Sel's power is concentrated is because that's where most of their Investiture was. Unlike Scadrial, Roshar and Nalthis where Investiture was all Physical or Spiritual Realm-focused, I think on Sel, Investiture manifests primarily in the Cognitive Realm, in the form of kinds of kind of mass Identities or unconscious group minds all magic users tapped into in order to use their magic. Like a specific idea of what it meant for all Elantrians to be Devoted to a singular cause or idea of what it meant to be Elantrian, and this manifestation of Devotion's Investiture fueled the magic channeled and focuses by symbols that built upon their symbol for their homeland or the focal point of this group Identity. And Skai's Investiture manifested in a similar mass Identity. When Odium Splintered them, all of that Cognitive-centered Investiture merged with what was left of their Spiritual power and just blurred together and fed on each other to become the chaotic mess of power that churns around aimlessly in Shadesar and makes it dangerous to go near. 

I have more thoughts on this but I'm trying to wrap this post up, but I think Sel-ish magic users are linked to Identity in a way few other practitioners are...and while this can be limiting on the surface, its potential is mind-blowing if you're adept at altering your own cognitive self-image or at least reframing your Identity in other ways. Regardless, while I don't think its likely any Shards are going to Invest in Sel any time soon as I have reasons to think the Dor makes them as wary of Sel as it does most world-hoppers, if they did, it would not be a simple venture, but would rather require a more overt presence...at least as the magic stands now. In order to make people on Sel use a magic they fueled, another Shard would have to Invest in its PEOPLE, in their cultural identities, as much as the physical Shardworld (again, Shardworld = its people and vice versa). They would have to give people on Sel a reason to flock around a specific region and regional identity and symbology they established to further their Intent....but ironically, no matter their personal Intent....it would still be peoples' Devotion to their new region and that cultural Identity's Dominion over all other concerns/priorities that would provide the most direct access to their new magic, even if it was this new Shard fueling it. Just like odiumspren still require bonds for Voidbinding and not-Breath would still need to be Endowed and Trellium still needs to be burned or fashioned into spikes implanted at the right points in a person's Spiritweb.

And on that final note, if Trell does turn out to be a new tenth Shard (I don't think Trell is Bavadin/Autonomy or someone else we've already seen).....let's just hope the dangers of the Dor keep him away from Sel, because from the followers he already has and the power of Sel-ish magics, a Trell Invested Sel as I'm picturing it now could be terrifying.

Edited August 18, 2016 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[Spoolofwhool]

Nice theory. Will have to take some time to develop a meaningful response. For now though, I want to point an error I noted on my first read.

8 hours ago, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

However, Roshar confused the crap out of me because it showed two separate manifestations of Investiture - spren and Stormlight. Which I couldn't wrap my head around.

A manifestation of investiture is the technical term for the magic systems. So allomancy, awakening, forgery, surgebinding and, sand mastery, to name a few, are manifestations of investiture. Spren and stormlight are just cognitive and physical forms of a shard's power.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

29 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Nice theory. Will have to take some time to develop a meaningful response. For now though, I want to point an error I noted on my first read.

A manifestation of investiture is the technical term for the magic systems. So allomancy, awakening, forgery, surgebinding and, sand mastery, to name a few, are manifestations of investiture. Spren and stormlight are just cognitive and physical forms of Honor's power.

 

Don't mean to be argumentative, but is manifestation of investiture as a technical term for the magic systems straight from Brandon? Its entirely possible it is and I missed it, but if its fan terminology that's a different matter.

For all intents and purposes though, read manifestations of investiture as I used it here to mean the ways a Shard's Investiture expresses itself on a Shardworld, just for clarification. And unless I'm seriously misinterpreting a series of things, I could swear stormlight is definitely Investiture as Brandon's talked more than once about Vasher using it as a substitute for Breath, and how on Scadrial it would be considerably harder to hack the magic system and fuel himself with its Investiture, which means that is what stormlight is. If we have WoB otherwise though, I've definitely missed that and would appreciate a point in the right direction. As for spren, we know they're splinters of the various Shards on Roshar and Adonalsium itself, but yes, the idea here that they are Investiture that developed sentience of their own, as Brandon's mentioned is possible and even likely given enough time, is a large part of this theory and entirely possible to be proven baseless. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[Spoolofwhool]

The ars arcanum of the Wax and Wayne mistborn books states that allomancy, feruchemy and hemalurgy are the manifestations of investiture on Scadrial. By that I'm assuming it is the term for the magic systems. My understanding is that "manifestation of investiture" refers to the more abstract system that results from the interactions of a shard's investiture with a planet which is used by the sentient species, ie magic. On the other hand, breath and stormlight are just physical realm representations of a shard's power and investiture. While they are investiture manifested under specific forms, to call them a manifestation of investiture is incorrect as that is a specific term pertaining to what I feel is a fairly defined concept. 

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

6 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

The ars arcanum of the Wax and Wayne mistborn books states that allomancy, feruchemy and hemalurgy are the manifestations of investiture on Scadrial. By that I'm assuming it is the term for the magic systems. My understanding is that "manifestation of investiture" refers to the more abstract system that results from the interactions of a shard's investiture with a planet which is used by the sentient species, ie magic. On the other hand, breath and stormlight are just physical realm representations of a shard's power and investiture. While they are investiture manifested under specific forms, to call them a manifestation of investiture is incorrect as that is a specific term pertaining to what I feel is a fairly defined concept. 

Gotcha. Well in that case then, yes, treat all instances where I said manifestations of Investiture as meaning 'the forms in which a Shard's Investiture is expressed in either the Physical, Cognitive or Spiritual Realms'.

[Thanatos]

ROSHtaFARian2.0

Have not read it all as on a smoke break but what little i read was interesting.

Odium on Roshar could be honor spren manipulated by Odiumto be Voidspren. Thats why i think Odiums power maybe to contaminate other shards investure.

Will comment further when I read it all.

Back to work for me

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Spren and stormlight are just cognitive and physical forms of Honor's power.

The Stormlight as Honor's Investiture is a speculation, we have no evidence about. And instead it's more likely to be of Cultivation or other Source at all (for example I think it's Adonalsium Investiture lefted before the Shattering).

Returning to the main topic as far as I know there isn't any WoB who said that Scadrial's Focus isn't Metal but just one who say: "The Metals aren't invested themself but they are gateway to power"

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

I just found one of the quotes from Brandon about metals not being the focus themselves on Scadrial. It wasn't the one I was thinking of when I wrote this theory, but its along the same lines, the focus, the filter in Allomancy/Feruchemy actually being the molecular structure of the metals rather than the metals themselves:

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People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

 

[Yata he/him]

But the fact that the metal doesn't contain power, doesn't mean that Metal isn't Scadrial's Focus. It's like to say that Nalthis's focus isn't Command because the Command Itself isn't power but you take the Investiture from Breath to performe magic.

The Metals are Scadrial's Focus. You may see it quite perfectly from the Scadrial's Cognitive Realm where every source of Metal brights both if it an Metallic Arts viable metals and not. The reason Ruin and Preservation are MetalBlind, it because to their expanded senses, the metal glow to much to read whaterver information they keep.

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

But the fact that the metal doesn't contain power, doesn't mean that Metal isn't Scadrial's Focus. It's like to say that Nalthis's focus isn't Command because the Command Itself isn't power but you take the Investiture from Breath to performe magic.

The Metals are Scadrial's Focus. You may see it quite perfectly from the Scadrial's Cognitive Realm where every source of Metal brights both if it an Metallic Arts viable metals and not. The reason Ruin and Preservation are MetalBlind, it because to their expanded senses, the metal glow to much to read whaterver information they keep.

But its not even that the metal doesn't contain power, as no focus contains power in and of itself, its the thing that filters the power and determines the shape it takes. Just like Commands on Nalthis aren't power in and of themselves. They're what focus the power, the Breath, and tell it what shape to take.

As Brandon describes it there, its literally the molecular structure of the metal, the pattern of it that shapes the form the power takes in the metallic arts. He went to the trouble of making a comparison between the metallic arts and drawing Aons, a parallel that makes no sense whatsoever if you simplify things to metal = Scadrial's focus.

With AonDor, the Dor is the Investiture that fuels the magic. The Aon an Elantrian draws is what channels that power into a specific effect. It focuses the near limitless power into one singular end result.

With Awakening, the Breath is the Investiture that fuels the magic. The Command an Awakener gives is what channels that power into a singular, specific effect.

With Allomancy, the Investiture that fuels the magic is innate, its part of the Allomancer. The molecular structure of the metal an Allomancer burns is what channels that power into a specific shape. It's what makes a bead of iron a clearly defined shape for the power to focus itself into. The structure of the metal is still the metal. They're the same thing. So of course the Shards will still be blind to the metal. But simplifying things to the focus = metal misses the why and how the metal acts as a focus. 

So I shouldn't be saying that the metals aren't the focus, that's a mistake. Instead I should simply be making the distinction that when specifically discussing things like foci and the connections between Investiture, people and the Shardworlds, its important to be cognizant of what specifically about the metals focus the power.

Edited August 18, 2016 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[Archwit he/him]

To the OP.

I think you are mistaken when you said this 

Quote

However, Roshar confused the crap out of me because it showed two separate manifestations of Investiture - spren and Stormlight. Which I couldn't wrap my head around.

Unless...what if they're one and the same? 

Reason being that in ars arcanum of Bands of mourning, Wit (I think this is wit talking, I might be completely wrong though) says 

Quote

as the mixing of different types of Investiture has curious effects. One needs look only at what is happened on Roshar to find this manifested. Two powers combined often have almost chemical reaction. Instead of getting out exactly what you put in you get something new.

This pretty much answers your question about it. 

Great post, I enjoyed reading!

[Spoolofwhool]

22 minutes ago, Archwit said:

To the OP.

I think you are mistaken when you said this 

Reason being that in ars arcanum of Bands of mourning, Wit (I think this is wit talking, I might be completely wrong though) says 

This pretty much answers your question about it. 

Great post, I enjoyed reading!

Hoid didn't write the Ars Arcanum. Also, the two powers being referred to are two surges, or two metallics arts, such as a Twinborn with a feruchemical and an allomantic power. I did address and correct the confusion in the first few replies. Spren and stormlight are a physical representation of a shard's power. Manifestations of investiture is the technical term for the magic systems.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Archwit he/him]

17 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Hoid didn't write the Ars Arcanum. Also, the two powers being referred to are two surges, or two metallics arts, such as a Twinborn with a feruchemical and an allomantic power. I did address and correct the confusion in the first few replies. Spren and stormlight are a physical representation of a shard's power. Manifestations of investiture is the technical term for the magic systems.

Thanks for clearing that for me. I guess we don't know who wrote it than?

[Yata he/him]

2 minutes ago, Archwit said:

Thanks for clearing that for me. I guess we don't know who wrote it than?

Actually we know it.

Spoiler

Khriss of Taldain is the Author of Ars Arcanum, She made some cameos in Secret History and Band of Mourning but actually she is a character of White Sand